Staying at Home Doesn't Make me a Door Mat

As the husband of a stay at home mom, this has always perplexed me, too. When people ask me "does your wife work?", I always comment "she'd KILL me if I said she didn't work, but she does stay at home with the kids". I am infuriated at the implication that staying home means someone "doesn't work" (and as homeschool parents, my wife has double duty!).

I can't help but feel that some of these people I have experienced this with wish they could be in my position but would have to sacrifice financially. In order to reconcile this with their ego, they have to tear me down. They either treat me like I don't really work or they act like they feel sorry for me. I just don't understand it.

I so identify with this statement, but as the reverse. I find a lot of stay-at-home moms that I know of, make comments about how well-behaved their children are over those kids that are at daycare because they have the ability to spend more time to really 'parent'. I wonder if both attitudes are a reflection of wondering if life is better the other way? As a working mother, I love the chance that I get to socialize with others my own age. As a stay-at-home mom, I loved the opportunity to do my own thing, whenever I wantd to do it.

There's no 'just' to parenting, either way. It's a difficult job for everyone. Jill, I know you are doing great, so don't give those that seem to talk down to you a second thought.
Nic.

Jill: I've been a stay-at-home-mom (or as Marge Simpson calls it, a domestic engineer) for closing in on two years now.

I love it, and I feel good knowing that I am doing what I feel is best for my family. I would never say that a woman that chooses to work outside the home is doing anything wrong or harmful to her family, but I do believe that for my family, I am doing the best thing possible.
People who don't see it as work would be quite surprised if they ever actually spent a day alone with children. Yikes!

You are not alone, girl!

I find a lot of stay-at-home moms that I know of, make comments about how well-behaved their children are over those kids that are at daycare

Oh boy do I know that type too Nic.  I just don't know why people have to be so judgemental either way.  Every family has a different set of challenges that require different solutions.

Thanks for the comments all.

I wonder if the people who denigrate staying at home with the children incorrectly think it's a lot easier than working outside the home? I have a great deal of respect for women(and men) who choose to stay home. It is a perfectly valid choice, and I think people shouldn't cast aspersions at anyone for doing it.

I so identify with this statement, but as the reverse. I find a lot of stay-at-home moms that I know of, make comments about how well-behaved their children are over those kids that are at daycare because they have the ability to spend more time to really 'parent'. I wonder if both attitudes are a reflection of wondering if life is better the other way? As a working mother, I love the chance that I get to socialize with others my own age. As a stay-at-home mom, I loved the opportunity to do my own thing, whenever I wantd to do it.

I've been both a stay at home and a working outside the home mom, and I know that both have their positives and their negatives. For ME, being a stay at home mom is the better of the two, but I know that it's not for everyone.  A couple of weeks ago, I made a remark about going back to work, and my girls, who are 14 and 11, BOTH said, at practically the same time "Just get that thought OUT of your head. You did NOT say the "W" word."  When I explained that I'm looking into some work at home options, they were much more satisfied...

I completely understand. During the time I got to be a stay at home mom, it was like people thought I did absolutely nothing all day. And even during times that I ran a day care at home, they still acted that way.

My husband and I agreed quite openly that if I am to stay home full time that I am to take care of pretty much everything around the house

wow...now where I agree with you that a home-maker is as valued and important as spouses that work outside of the home, I find this comment very hard to take.....

My wife also was as you describe...she stayed home while I worked..but to even think that I'd not help around the house, take out the trash, mow the lawn, do my share would have been unthinkable!

Running a house is a 24/7 job...my job is just 8 hours a day....who is your husband to think that he should not have to do SOMETHING in the running and upkeep of a house just because you and he choise to have you as a "house wife" ???

So...he does what? Goes out, spends his 8 hour day at the office, and has you wait on him hand and foot when he returns for the other 16 hours???

Make the bas$%rt take out the trash!!!!!!

Unreal.

Jilluser (and all homemakers) : Here's a story I once posted for a friend. (This was originally from my workplace's intranet website and was for mothers (for Mother's Day).)

================================================

Emily was renewing her driver’s license at the Clerk’s office when she was requested to state her occupation. She hesitated, uncertain of how to classify herself.

“What I mean is,” explained the clerk, “do you have a job? Or are you just a…?”

“Of course I have a job,” snapped Emily, “I’m a mother.”

“We don’t list ‘mother’ as an occupation, “housewife” covers it.” Explained the clerk emphatically.

I forgot all about the incident until I found myself in the same situation one day at our Home Town Hall.

The clerk was obviously a career woman, poise, efficient and possessed a title like “Official Interrogator” or “Town Registrar”.

“What is your occupation?” she probed.

What made me said it, I don’t know. The words simply popped out.

“I’m a Research Associate in the field of Child Development and Human Relations.”

The clerk paused, ballpoint pen frozen in midair and looked up as though she did not hear properly. I repeated the title slowly, emphasizing the most important words. Then I stared in wonder as my pronouncement was written in bold black ink on the official questionnaire.

“May I ask,” said the clerk with new interest, “just what you do in your field?”

Without any trace of fluster in my voice, I replied, “I have a continuing research program (which mothers don’t) in the laboratory and in the fields (normally I would have said ‘indoors’ and ‘outdoors’). I’m working for my Masters (my whole family) and have already achieved four credits (all daughters). Of course, the job is one of the most demanding in the humanities (any mothers care to disagree?) and I often work 14 hours a day (24 hours is more like it). But the job is more challenging than most run-of-the-mill careers. And the rewards are more satisfying, not just in the area of monetary rewards.”

I must have earned the clerk’s respect as she completed the form, stood up and personally ushered me to the door.

As I drove into my driveway, heartened by my glamorous new career, I was greeted by my lab assistants, age 13, 7 and 3. Upstairs, I can hear my new experiment (a six month old baby) in the child development program and testing out new vocal program.

I felt triumphant. I had scored a beat on bureaucracy. And I had gone in the records as someone more distinguished and indispensable to mankind than “just another mother”.

Motherhood – what a glorious career!

==================================

Expat_Jac  I happen to know Jill and her spouse very well and he does not just work eight hour days.  When you are self employed no day is an eight hour day.  I know this because I am the child of a self employed person who worked  six to seven days a week for most of my childhood.  And even on days when you think that you get the self employed person to just family something comes up.  My dad made as much time as he could for us when we were kids and helped out where he could.  As Jill's spouse does.  But when you have limited time the last thing you want your self-employed spouse doing is housework.  You as the stay at home spouse would rather see them spend time with the family. 

So I would retract that statement and apologize to Jill and her spouse. 

There is one overwhelming comment that I remember from my college days.  My former lab partner, who was a part time nurse and a mother, once told me that as a women there is no way that you can have everything something will always give.   You just have to decide whether it is the career or the home life something will ultimately end up suffering.  In the case of Jill and her spouse, they have chosen to give up her working which in reality I know Jill still helps out in the family business as the boys get older and her husband helps at home to some degree. So the finance is what they chose to give and I respect them for that. 

As I am of the age where friends are having families many of my friends are choosing to have one parent stay home for a few years to take care of their little ones.  This is their choice and they have planned for it and it works for them.  I also know women who wanted to go directly back to work after the baby because they enjoyed their careers and that's great too.  What works for one couple does not always work for another.  What the women's liberation movement has given this generation is the option to run their family as they see fit whether that be a stay at home mom or a career women no one has the right to look down on you for your decision.

Jill - don't let them get to you.  I think sometimes people just haven't planned financially ahead to take the option because they didn't think they would want to and sometimes they just have no idea how involved stay at home parents are playing in their own children's lives.  My sister is a stay at home mom who volunteers at her children's elementary school four to five days a week helping kids who need extra help and helping teachers with over capacity class rooms. As did my mom when we were kids.  The stay at home parents are the field trip parents who make sure kids stay with the group. They are the parents who over task themselves and end up staying up to 1:00-200 a.m. making five diffrent kinds of cookies for the bake offs and the christmas parties then volunteer to help with the party itself.     So to those working parents I would say be greatful for the stay at home parents because you don't know how much help they are giving to your kids.

Anyways, Jill - sorry that you felt like that this weekend.  Take care,  we'll have to talk soon.

Running a house is a 24/7 job...my job is just 8 hours a day....who is your husband to think that he should not have to do SOMETHING in the running and upkeep of a house just because you and he choise to have you as a "house wife" ???

1) just because you only work 8 hours a day does not mean that her husband only works 8 hours a day.  Some men work long hours or two jobs to afford their wife to stay at home.  I think you are assuming too much.

2) if *they* made the decision on how to live, why should *you* say it is wrong?  You are acting like the people she is complaining about.

In the end, each family decides how it will be run.  Both my hubby and I work full time (my parents watch our daughter while I work) so we share household duties 50/50.  However, if I stayed at home, there is no way that I would expect my hubby to do 50% of the housework.  I would expect him to do things that I couldn't do (like change the oil in the cars (well, that's a bad example since I could actually do that) or plow the snow....actually, that's a bad example too..) but I wouldn't expect him to do 50% of the work.

Staying at home can be a full time job (like Jill does) or it can be a lot less (I have met some really lazy Moms ).  In the end, it doesn't matter.  If you are happy and your family is happy who gives a flying fig what anyone else thinks?

I think we should go back to the 50's.  All Moms stay at home and nurture their kids.  (This would change the economy so that households could live on one income).  Moms can then have time to make the home nice and stress free and figure out how in the hell to keep those 50's dresses from being wrinkled all the time

It take time for shopping for clothes and paint your toenails too it is definitly a FULL TIME job!!

It take time for shopping for clothes and paint your toenails too it is definitly a FULL TIME job!!

I can only assume that English is not your first language.

Running a house is a 24/7 job...my job is just 8 hours a day....who is your husband to think that he should not have to do SOMETHING in the running and upkeep of a house just because you and he choise to have you as a "house wife" ???

As long as they agreed to their arrangement, and it works for them, then who are we to judge?

It take time for shopping for clothes and paint your toenails too it is definitly a FULL TIME job!!

You left out my favorite part...eating bonbons while watching soap operas and talk shows all day! 

HW, Wow!  Thanks so much.  Our true friends like you know how happy our family is and are secure enough with themselves to simply be happy for us.  We seem to have some "friends" though that seem to just be happy for us.  This blog helped me vent and I am feeling better about it especially with your support.   Thanks!  BTW, I miss you loads! (Also, I loved your point about how career moms should be thankful for the benefits they enjoy from other moms staying home)

Karma, you hit the nail on the head when you mentioned that every family has to decide how things need to be run for them.  I don't know why people think all men should take out the trash.  That would be like saying all women should have to have children and stay home.  There is no right way for all situations. 

ExPat Jac has the exact attitude that I am fed up with.  I don't wait on my hubby hand and foot unless I want to and just because I take out the trash doesn't mean I don't have it good.  I get manicures and pedicures and get to spend all the time in the world with my kids.  I feel I have the best of all worlds.  I try not to flaunt that but maybe the next time one of these "friends" starts acting sorry for me I will have to point out just how good I have it.  Anyone in their right mind could see that I have a "real job" that is incredibly rewarding.

 

Who says you are a doormat. Everyone lives according to his/her conveniences. If what you and your husband decide is the best for your family, why bother what others say. People will always say something or the other. Live as you deem fit.

Keep blogging amyway!

I agree with live in a society in which working women increasingly will assume that a stay at home mom is somehow a doormat.

My wife is a stay at home mom. She takes care of pretty much all the domestic stuff (our outside stuff we have a yard service for but before that I used to take care of the outside the house stuff). But I do work more than 8 hours per day.  It's 11:46 pm right now and I'm just finishing at the office. That's the 3rd 14 hour day this week for me. 

When I get home, I just want to spend time with my wife and kids. Maybe veg a little bit. Read a book maybe.  My wife understands that. She makes our house a wonderful home to return to every evening.  She likes to cook and she likes to do domestic things.  We'll have company over and she'll make brownies and I swear, sometimes the people (usually the women) will get this look on their faces like my wife is some sort of mindless stepford wife.

And that really annoys me.  Besides the fact that my wife has a dual degree in applied mathematics and computer science, she spends a great deal of time reading and writing. I'd per her head to head with any working woman in terms of intellectual capability.  And my wife is certainly no doormat.   When it comes to most of the day to day decisions in our lives, she's in charge.  My job is to bring home the material "wealth" that she can then convert into things that make our lives good.  And it works for us.

As the person who does all the cooking in our household, and gardening, a good share of ironing and cleaning ... and WELL beyond an 8 hour day I firmly believe in allowing people to do what works for them. And yes, myself and my wife both work.

We have no kids yet, but I'd happily be a stay at home dad! This is never likely to happen (stay at home dad that is) for practical financial reasons, but who really cares as long as it works. It's bizarre, because somehow I think society would look more positively upon a stay at home dad. It would be seen as someone putting family first and someone who really cares about what's best for everyone - especially by women and those men who don't have ego problems.

You keep it up Jill - do what works for you and offer to let those who consider you a doormat the chance to babysit if it's all so easy, so you and your fella can go out on the town!

>> So I would retract that statement and apologize to Jill and her spouse.

...forgive me, but I just can't seem to bring myself to apologies to a man that sees it as some badge of honor that his wife do ALL the work around the house even if he IS self employeed.....heck..I myself am self employeed...and *I* managed to somehow find the time to also help my wife around the house....after all...I live there also!

See...fact is, I am more in tune to her having a real job apparently than YOU are...because I realize that her staying home and being a "house wife" is a VERY hard job....and thus for her husband not to help in the house work makes him, in my book a bit snobbish!

So...sorry..I can't bring myself to apologize to Jill and her spouse.....

she first come in with "I'm not a door mat" and then "My husband and I agreed quite openly that if I am to stay home full time that I am to take care of pretty much everything around the house"

to me...it reads as if she's allowing him to make her one...

Just IMHO.....take it or leave it...but thats the extent you'll get....no "I'm sorry" when to say this would be a lie on my part....

Jac

she first come in with "I'm not a door mat" and then "My husband and I agreed quite openly that if I am to stay home full time that I am to take care of pretty much everything around the house"

Exactly- her and her husband agree.  What part of that are you not understanding?  If they *both* agree on how the house should run, who are you to say that the husband is making her a doormat.

Is it really that hard to understand that there are ambitious home makers that want to take care of things?

Damn, if I didn't work I would feel like a lazy bum if I expected my hubby to do much.  As is, we split everything 50/50 because we both work full time. 

So, answer this- if we both work 8+ hours a day (gone for 10+ hours from the house) and split the work 50/50, and I quit my job and stay home for those hours instead, what should he have to do?  We currently have about 2 hours a night to get stuff done.  That is 20 hours A WEEK combined during the week.  So, by your thinking, even though I now have 50 hours to be home, I shouldn't do by myself what both of us did in 20 hours?  That just doesn't make sense to me.........

To look at even another way.  Say we combined do house chores during that 20 hours at night during the week and we each spend 6 hours per day on house chores on the weekend (which, I doubt anyone's household does, and I don't currently do...but, we'll pretend...).  That is 20 hours during the week + 24 during the weekend..... 44 hours total.  (hmmm...that sounds better than the 50 that I currently do......)

So, by the woman working full time during the week and doing *everything*, it benefits the household.  What happens is that nights and weekends will then become open for the family to actually LIVE and not just work on chores.

Sorry to add logic to this whole debate 

Sorry to add logic to this whole debate

That logic was greatly needed!  I don't mind that Jac there didn't apologize.  He demonstrated exactly the attitude that I can't bring myself to understand. 

I am going to spice things up here a bit and go one step further from saying not only am I not a doormat, but any man who is the sole provider for his family, working more than eight hr days, and is splitting the housework, is a doormat (or p-whipped, whichever you prefer). 

Staying at home full time with kids (the kids part is the huge one) is an extremely difficult job but it is definitely not without its rewards.  I would also say that in a lot of ways it isn't harder than a lot of jobs and I know for a fact it isn't harder than running your own business ( I have some experience to draw from there).  Sure, I have a lot on my plate, but I usually don't have the deadlines, and coworker pressures and stresses that a lot of other jobs have.  I am very proud of what I do.  I consider myself an ambitious home maker and treat raising my children as the most important job out there.

I am also a bit of a control nut when it comes to my own environment.  My husband has tried to help out in the past but, to tell the truth, he doesn't do it my way and therefore I would rather do it myself.  That is my choice.  My perogative.  How could this possibly make me a doormat?  My husband isn't forcing my to do anything.  We have made agreements based on how we work best together to make a happy, healthy home and maximize our time with and enjoyment of each other.  What is there to criticize?  It has been working for us for over 12 yrs now.  How many of my critics can say that?

It would be seen as someone putting family first and someone who really cares about what's best for everyone - especially by women and those men who don't have ego problems.

I think you hit the nail on the head there Martin.  You mentioned stay-at-home dads.  I happen to know a few of them in our community and they get a far different reception than you would think.  Many, not myself included, instantly think the dad must have lost his job.  How could a "real" man choose to stay home?  The real kicker here is this attitude often comes from stay-at-home moms.  I think there are ego problems across the board but I think women are usually the ones doing themselves the greatest disservice.

I myself harbor resentment toward acquiring the attitude that I am somehow deficient in my contributions because I am "Just" a stay-at-home mom.  I don't believe in my heart that I could be doing anything more important for myself and family right now but still feel lacking due to the reception I get from others.  People talk the talk about how important raising a family is but don't walk the walk when interacting with home makers in general. 

In the end, each family decides how it will be run. Both my hubby and I work full time (my parents watch our daughter while I work) so we share household duties 50/50. However, if I stayed at home, there is no way that I would expect my hubby to do 50% of the housework. I would expect him to do things that I couldn't do (like change the oil in the cars (well, that's a bad example since I could actually do that) or plow the snow....actually, that's a bad example too..) but I wouldn't expect him to do 50% of the work.

That's pretty much how we do it.

We did have a time when I was managing the group homes for developmentally disabled adults when we had a little conflict over the housework. My wife works very hard and, as with any job, it catches up to you.

I didn't want to do extra housework, as it was a regular part of my average 65 hour workweek (sometimes more), and my wife was burnt out.

So we made a decree that Sundays were days off (we picked Sundays because of our faith, but any other day would work as well): we bought paper plates, and did NO housework on Sundays. Meals were things that required no effort to prepare (frozen pizzas, casseroles made during the week, etc). It worked and has become somewhat of a tradition.

I was managing the group homes for developmentally disabled adults

I was a care giver at DDA homes while in college.  Boy is that good experience to have before becoming a parent!  Not only do you get to see how trying it is to manage care for these people and their home, but you also get an education about the effects of birth defects and have a better idea of what you can and can't handle should your child have one of these impairments.  I can certainly understand why you wouldn't want to do housework after a day on that job!

When I hear someone say "the guy who works full time should come home and help share the domestic responsibilities with the stay at home mom" I can't help but feel like they're patronizing the stay at home mom.

I think most people would probably agree that my wife probably couldn't do my day job as well as I can do it.  So why would someone think I could do the domestic jobs as well as my wife?  My wife is a domestic goddess. Things run smoothly because of the way she does things.  When someone gets on me for not doing more at home I can't help but read that as saying "Look, any schmoe can do what your wife is doing so go in there and help her."

Sure, I could technically cook dinner twice a week or do many of the other things she does. But I would never be able to do most of them anywhere near as well.  Even little things like vacuuming.  Sure, I could do it.  It would probably take twice as long and not be done nearly as well and there'd be toys and crap stuck in there but I could do it.  To what end though?  My wife's cooking is good enough that she could be a professional at it.  Her decorating skills are outstanding.  She makes our house a real home. 

Being a homemaker isn't "easier".  But it IS lower impact.  It's a trade-off -- you're always on call but the day to day stress is generally less.  My wife's focus is on our home and family which helps make our home a real sanctuary for our family.  My focus is on ensuring our family has the means to live at the level we like. That's high impact.  One day I might be having to deal with problematic employee, the next day I might be doing an radio interview (like tomorrow morning at 10:30am and then another radio interview iwth Arnie Arnesen in the afternoon in between contracts, lawyers, project status, coding, etc.).  The point being, it's a choice.  8 hours of homemaking isn't necessarily the same as 8 hours of running a business (let alone 12).

But sure, I could do some of what she does, badly. In a typical week I work around 60 hours.  During crunch time that goes up to 75 to 80 hours.  That's like working two full time jobs.  And sometimes I only work 40 hours a week (not bloody often).  When you add in the time of getting ready for the day, sleep, showering, eating, driving to work that leaves me with about 18 hours per week of not working and that's during non-crunch time (during crunch time free time and sleep get cut).   So sure, I could use those 18 hours per week doing the wash.  Or I could spend them with my wife and children or (gasp) playing a video game or some other recreational activity.

Luckily, my wife and I have the same priorities.  She LIKES being in charge of the domestic affairs. And she's really good at it.  And it has allowed me to focus more on things that generate income for our family.  But my wife gets patronized by working couples as if she's a doormat (despite their willingness to try to take advantage of the fact she's home during the day when it comes to THEIR needs). 

I can definitely see where Jill is coming from.  I don't look at stay at home moms as doormats.  I think Jill is right, guys who come home from work and split up all the chores are p-whipped.