Also if you do not have the double economic event going then that mind controll center 100% bonus is compounded on top of the regular economy -- which would have the same effect as the double economy event ( I've never played evil but looks like it might be a great choice now especially with the nerfing of NLCs ).

There is no "double economic" event. The one in place just gives +25% IIRC.

The +100% from the MCC are simply added to your racial ability (just like tech effects, resource bases etc.) and not used as an extra multiplier.

There is no "double economic" event. The one in place just gives +25% IIRC.

I had it 2 times for extended periods in a 1.2 game with similar conditions to what Mumblefratz has in his game except I was going up to around 30T total pop with just 379 plnets. Unfortunately, eventually one of those array thingys got too large and I lost the game -- crashed and auto saved games wouldn't load ( 3 weeks RL down the drain and only 6 game months from the finish )

Clearly, the numbers would be lower in 1.3 because of the reasons you give, however all my pop (except a few civilization capitals) is at 15B. In v1.3 you'd be able to stabilize at 19B which would gain some of the differences back

Don't know how many morale resources you have but you should be able to get 21-22B pop with 100% morale in 1.2.

I believe but do not know -- that they increased the morale penalty for pop's in 1.3.
It would be nice if you could post a few numbers from your planets -- like say for 7B, 9B, 11B, ... 21B.

For instance in 1.3
7B pop causes -14% morale
then 3% increments for every 1B pop to
11B pop causes -26% morale
All I got in my current game and never bothered with these numbers before.

Also high +morales are nerfed in 1.3; +200% morale does not give twice the benefits of +100% morale according to the 1.3 change log.


Also, I appreciate your humbleness and understand your posting intentions but I'm still impressed and enjoying learning how you achieved this. Sorry if my calculations weren't all that good and I guessed wrong a few times.

Good luck on getting a great score with the game.

Don't know how many morale resources you have but you should be able to get 21-22B pop with 100% morale in 1.2.

Got only 5 morale resources. I got slightly shorted on everything except for influence, of which I have 9 (only bothered to use 4). But yeah, with the morale tech/wonders/resources, 20B is not a problem which is what I have on civilization capitals and PQ9's (PQ9 max pop by growth is 20B). It's more a problem of coming up with a farm combination that limits the pop to this level. The only way I can think of (in v1.2) is to use some combination of farms that you keep from getting upgraded by either disabling auto-upgrade (on 500 planets that's a pain) or by not researching the later farm techs (which if you finish the tech tree you're forced to research). How do you limit pop to a value that's not supported by an integral number of top line farms?

It would be nice if you could post a few numbers from your planets -- like say for 7B, 9B, 11B, ... 21B.

I'm not at the computer the game is on atm. I have previously verified the numbers given in the GCII Wiki Morale article which are:

1B = -1%
5B = -9%
10B = -23%
15B = -40%
20B = -60%
25B = -80%

The only common point between this and what you gave is 10B where they both agree on -23%. I can probably get a few more data points later this evening.

Also high +morales are nerfed in 1.3; +200% morale does not give twice the benefits of +100% morale according to the 1.3 change log.

I read that as well. It's pretty vague as it stands. I think it relates to civ bonuses. It's probably something that you just have to get a "feel" for by playing it. I guess what I'll be looking for at first when I move to v1.31 (as soon I as I finish my current game), is, will I be able to support the morale of 19B planets without any morale buildings? I'm guessing I will. This is a convient number because it'll be the same on colonies with two advanced farms and civilization capitals with one.

Good luck on getting a great score with the game.

Thanks. A good score is nice but in the end it's way more important to have fun.

I was going up to around 30T total pop with just 379 planets

30T / 379 = 79B per planet. That's impressive. I'd ask how you managed it, but regrettably it no longer matters.

I was going up to around 30T total pop with just 379 planets 30T / 379 = 79B per planet. That's impressive. I'd ask how you managed it, but regrettably it no longer matters.

I was putting the extra pop in transports and then was just going to offload it back on the planets at the end. It probably wouldn't have worked because the pop score is probably based on average pop per turn -- but i figured no one else tried it and if it worked I might set a record ( of course Stardock would then nerf it ).

Thanks for that morale info from 1.2.
I'm usually pretty good at figuring out how they make the mechanics of these type of games work but I'm ready to give up on this morale in GC2.
I know how to make morale work while playing GC2. But the numbers don't make a lot of sense.
That Wiki stuff is mostly confusing -- the detailed info is at the GC site not the GC2 site -- most of it appears to be 1.0 info. For instance they say that more pop stops affecting morale after 25B but I know that it stopped after 26B in 1.2.
The pop morale penalty may not have changed but then why do I have smaller pops with 1.3 when I do not build morale buildings except for stock markets? -- doesn't make sense to me.

will I be able to support the morale of 19B planets without any morale buildings? I'm guessing I will. This is a convient number because it'll be the same on colonies with two advanced farms and civilization capitals with one.

Your probably wrong and your probably not gonna like it -- it varies a lot from planet to planet -- I'm just doing 2 intensive farms and getting 17B max planets and a lot of them need to have the population trimmed down well before 17B ( I use 3K troop transports myself ).

As for setting the max pop on a planet -- I think most of us wish we could set it manually at any number under that allowed by farms.

I was putting the extra pop in transports and then was just going to offload it back on the planets at the end.

Cute.

Your probably wrong and your probably not gonna like it -- it varies a lot from planet to planet -- I'm just doing 2 intensive farms and getting 17B max planets and a lot of them need to have the population trimmed down well before 17B ( I use 3K troop transports myself ).

Are you saying that 17B on one planet is different than 17B on another?

How do you keep the intensive farms from upgrading to advanced farms?

Actually, I have no real problem operating at 12B per planet into pretty much the middle of the game. It's only for the last two (or perhaps one) opponents that I want to bulk up. When I get about half of the planets in the galaxy (~250) I set myself up for the final war that once I start I just keep on going until I've conquered everything.

Before I start this final war I like to have enough transports on hand (I use 2K per transport) to conquer everything (about 350-400). I have a couple of reasons for this, one is I don't want my offensive to stall out because of a lack of transports. The other is that I often fight the final war as a two front war and don't like defenseless transports on auto-pilot getting dangerously close to enemy lines.

Anyway, my first goal in this final war is to take and hold pretty much all of the galactic mining resources (primary concern are military resources but the second concern is moral). In this scenario, I'd be looking to go up to 19B on all my planets pretty much at the same time that I take control of all the moral resources in the galaxy. My question is, Do you think this will work?

Are you saying that 17B on one planet is different than 17B on another?

I'm saying that with the same morale bonus's and same population -- planets will have varying approval ( more so than I noticed pre 1.3 ).

How do you keep the intensive farms from upgrading to advanced farms?

manually cancel the upgrade

Anyway, my first goal in this final war is to take and hold pretty much all of the galactic mining resources (primary concern are military resources but the second concern is moral). In this scenario, I'd be looking to go up to 19B on all my planets pretty much at the same time that I take control of all the moral resources in the galaxy. My question is, Do you think this will work?

Yes but I'm not positive -- you might have a few problems but probably nothing major.
If your fine with 12B populations during the conquesting phase, you'll probably only have a few minor problems with class 6-13 planets depending on how you build them and offload pop on transports.
I have planets with 4 stock exchanges and 10B pop dropping below 100% approval and i have 3 fully developed morale resources and 2 trade goods giving +20% and +15% morales.

With 1.31 you'll find that you'll have to tweak your strategies - not completely change them but definitely alter them -- for instance I now build up my stock exchanges after manufactoring centers and before industrial centers whereas in 1.2, I just put em in after industrial centers. I'm sure you get the idea.

I'm saying that with the same morale bonus's and same population -- planets will have varying approval ( more so than I noticed pre 1.3 ).

That's definitely a change.

manually cancel the upgrade

On 500 planets? Boy. I sure would like that global auto-upgrade governor that I asked for awhile back.

I have planets with 4 stock exchanges and 10B pop dropping below 100% approval and i have 3 fully developed morale resources and 2 trade goods giving +20% and +15% morales.

That's also is a definite change.

Well, I may have to eat my words. Actually, my criticism of the farm/morale changes was based on the premise that they nerfed high pop (which I liked) but that they didn't really do anything to make the morale buildings more of a necessity. If the changes really do bring the morale buildings more into play then maybe they're not so bad after all. I think I like the variation of approval between planets with the same pop and morale bonuses. It makes planet build choices less cookie cutter.

BTW. I did get a few more datapoints for v1.2 pop vs. morale.

2.7B = -3%
4.5B = -7%
5.0B = -9%
8.4B = -18%
9.6B = -22%
10.0B = -23%
10.5B = -25%
11.0B = -26%
11.5B = -28%
12.0B = -30%
12.5B = -31%
13.1B = -34%
13.5B = -35%
14.0B = -37%
15.0B = -40%
16.5B = -46%
17.5B = -50%
18.6B = -54%
20.0B = -60%

I'm saying that with the same morale bonus's and same population -- planets will have varying approval ( more so than I noticed pre 1.3 ).

That's definitely a change.

manually cancel the upgrade

On 500 planets? Boy. I sure would like that global auto-upgrade governor that I asked for awhile back.

I have planets with 4 stock exchanges and 10B pop dropping below 100% approval and i have 3 fully developed morale resources and 2 trade goods giving +20% and +15% morales.

That's also is a definite change.

Well, I may have to eat my words. Actually, my criticism of the farm/morale changes was based on the premise that they nerfed high pop (which I liked) but that they didn't really do anything to make the morale buildings more of a necessity. If the changes really do bring the morale buildings more into play then maybe they're not so bad after all. I think I like the variation of approval between planets with the same pop and morale bonuses. It makes planet build choices less cookie cutter.

BTW. I did get a few more datapoints for v1.2 pop vs. morale.

2.7B = -3%
4.5B = -7%
5.0B = -9%
8.4B = -18%
9.6B = -22%
10.0B = -23%
10.5B = -25%
11.0B = -26%
11.5B = -28%
12.0B = -30%
12.5B = -31%
13.1B = -34%
13.5B = -35%
14.0B = -37%
15.0B = -40%
16.5B = -46%
17.5B = -50%
18.6B = -54%
20.0B = -60%

I'm saying that with the same morale bonus's and same population -- planets will have varying approval ( more so than I noticed pre 1.3 ).

That's definitely a change. I wonder if this pseudo-random variation or whether it's based on a planets PQ (aside from the morale bonus a high PQ planet gets).

manually cancel the upgrade

On 500 planets? Boy. I sure would like that global auto-upgrade governor that I asked for awhile back.

I have planets with 4 stock exchanges and 10B pop dropping below 100% approval and i have 3 fully developed morale resources and 2 trade goods giving +20% and +15% morales.

That's also is a definite change.

Well, I may have to eat my words. Actually, my criticism of the farm/morale changes was based on the premise that they nerfed high pop (which I liked) but that they didn't really do anything to make the morale buildings more of a necessity. If the changes really do bring the morale buildings more into play then maybe they're not so bad after all. I think I like the variation of approval between planets with the same pop and morale bonuses. It makes planet build choices less cookie cutter.

BTW. I did get a few more datapoints for v1.2 pop vs. morale.

2.7B = -3%
4.5B = -7%
5.0B = -9%
8.4B = -18%
9.6B = -22%
10.0B = -23%
10.5B = -25%
11.0B = -26%
11.5B = -28%
12.0B = -30%
12.5B = -31%
13.1B = -34%
13.5B = -35%
14.0B = -37%
15.0B = -40%
16.5B = -46%
17.5B = -50%
18.6B = -54%
20.0B = -60%

We heard you the first time.   

Sorry. My PC went nuts on me and hung when I went to edit the post. Was afraid to try to correct it in case it did even more the next time.