Miniaturization bug

Or am I missing something somewhere since I just noticed some of my components gained 1 more in size, thus going against the definition of miniaturization...

There have been posts on this before I think, I forget exactly why that happens. Components scale up in size on larger hulls, I believe it's something to do with that.

wilson's correct. Component size is made of a fixed size value and a percentage of the hull size. Because of this miniturization effectively only affects the base size. The hull percentage is in general a nonfactor in miniturization because the 15% should increase the component size an ammount equal to the increased hull space. What happeened was that you've been burned by floating point rounding. The current implementation is better than applying the percentage on the components size, but because component size scales with hull size you're effectively only minuturizing the base size of a component.

Probably the easiest way to mitigate this would be to mutiply all sizes by 10 to reduce the impact of rounding issues. Keeping exact values internally would avoid it entirely, but generate lots of false bug reports because the displayed values (eg 14) are not indentical to the exact ones (eg 14.32098234793) used to calculate space left.

Or, you could just forego researching the last two miniaturization techs. Those are the two that really bite you.

I think what the Zerogman was saying is that he had all that set already and that his large hull was full and going. THEN he captured the AI planet with the Hyperion Shrinker and his existing hulls, allready set, CHANGED for the worse.

Sounds like a bug to me.

I know what happened, and it is not a bug. It is because of the way the sizemod factor works. There really is no way around it except to not research those last 2 min techs. If those had not been researched that extra shrinker may not have made that much difference. And I think in 1.2 the shrinker can be demolished, so he can always get rid of the excess.

I was savagely bitten in the posterior by this one. Not once, but twice in one game. I captured an enemy planet and was rewarded by getting Supreme Miniaturization. A few turns later I captured another planet which granted me Ultimate Miniaturization. Whammo, instantly scrood my ship designs. I had to go and re-do all of them (grumble).

Frankly, thats whats been bothering me since late last year with miniaturization. Lets extend the common thought here.

The last two techs of mini we're not going to research because basically your getting screwed. Apply that to defenses... than to weapons...

Difference about twice the damage... twice the defense...

Why isn't mini twice the smaller?

The system is working as intended. Which imo bytes.

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large

The reason I think miniaturization is working as intended is to keep ships (ie players and the AI) from having 1000's of points of damage and 100's of points of defense potential. Why? Well the reason that springs to my mind is the damage calculator may not be set to handle the massive calculations needed for ships that can crank out damages from 3 different weapons combinations which could give a minimum of 7 different calculations needed to be looked at even with the most basic research in the 3 weapons area. Add 7 more for defense and the number keeps growing.

Now, the numbers I am spewing (figuratively and litterally) could be off, but now move it up some more, second generation, weapons and defense, plus at this time the majority of us have researched not only basic but enhanced mini... if we do mini the Suralle way, we have effectively added what... 15% reduction in size to all components and a 15% increase in the hull size. (I Know, but its my wish so I wish BIG!) Now granted its probably going to be one or the other but still, it shouldn't be. Basic Life Support starts out at 4... you research basic mini, the BLS goes up to 5... 20% increase. I call a BLS for exactly what it sounds like... Tihsllub. Thats right its smells, it reeks of unwashed decay. And whats worse, to make up for it, you are forced to research GLS to get back down to 4. BUT, by this time if you are not trading with someone, your getting wiped out. So now you need the weapons and due to changes corresponding defenses. Which if you have ships already may not work anyways because the of the changes to the equipment due to the fact of "Miniaturization".

Anywho, thats my rant on miniaturization.

I would like to add that I am totally addicted to this game, I know the tech tree is going to bone me at specific points, but I look at the overall end and keep plugging along and update my ships when it benefits me the most. Which is to mean I make new ones and place the others in the back planets in reserve until I can sell them anymore. Upgrades being back to extremely more expensive than necessary or what any naval empire should have to pay on modular hull replacement and servicable items should be.

W/R
Suralle Straykat
Kat Lord @ Large

YES, I do feel that the staff here at SDC is NUMERO UNO, Number One, The Bomb, The Rad, The Best, etc etc etc, if anyone was to say otherwise I would pointedly disagree. IS this game perfect, no, is there room for improvement, yes, am I perfect, depends, my puppy Bailey seems to think so.

I really don't think it has to do with simple number crunching. After all, it's what computers are designed to do. A 1, 2 or 3 digit number for 1, 2 or 3 weapons and defenses would not give it any problem at all. 4 or 5 digits should not strain its brain.

The numbers for the min techs simply need to be upped enough to make it worthwhile, that's all. Once you hit above the 400% mark things return to normal in that respect. Each of the last 2 techs should probably give 200-300% increases. And it would not unbalance anything because it is the ratio's of size vs sizemod that really matter, not the actual numbers themselves.

Heh, stupid part is, I already knew the answer to my question, I just wanted to hear some more responses.

The numbers for the min techs simply need to be upped enough to make it worthwhile, that's all. Once you hit above the 400% mark things return to normal in that respect. Each of the last 2 techs should probably give 200-300% increases. And it would not unbalance anything because it is the ratio's of size vs sizemod that really matter, not the actual numbers themselves.

What the heck are you are you talking about? Miniaturization as a whole, or a total?

Simple solution for the miniaturization debate. Remove size mods on weapons for hull sizes (since a weapon twice as large as another should do twice the damage at least, don't you think?) and remove all size mods for components that are affected by miniaturization.

Reasoning:
1. Simpler calculations
2. Less decimal rounding error
3. More realistic
a. I shouldn't be able to put the same amount of components on a large as I can on a massive.
b. Description of massive says it's 3000m long, you'd think I could fit more than 8 B.H. Eruptors!
4. Less complaints
a. About ship designs become over-sized, thus non-upgradeable without removing something.
b. About A.I.'s being able to stuff more components on ships than players. (How do they stuff 3 BHG's, 1 DR, 2 Ultra S, and 2 HwMk3 in a tiny hull?!?)

I agree. The algorithm needs to be reworked since advancing in a technology should never give less space than before (otherwise what's the point) and IMO considered a bug. I don't mind if the technology only gives you 1 or 2 more spaces, because that at least is going forward.

Stop whining. According to Stardock, this is a feature. Its like researching a super-virus that kills off your entire population...