Medium Hulls useless??

from GalCiv2 Forums
In my current game I have built 2 offensive ships, one small and one medium size. By comparing these 2 ships I started to doubt if there is any justification for building medium ships.
These are the ships I've built:
Medium Ship has 41 space:
I equipped it with with 1 Impuls drive(6 Space) + 5 Lasers V (6 Space and 1dmg), alltogether 36 space used and 5 free
Small Ship has 28 space:
I equipped it with 1Impuls drive(5 Space) + 4 Lasers V (5 Space and 1 dmg), alltogether 25 space used and 3 free

Ok, without Bonuses the small hull has 10hp while medium has 16hp. Small ships require 3 logistic points and medium ships 4 points.
Now assume we have a total of 24 logistic points available. That means we can create a fleet with small ships containing 8 members OR we can create a fleet with medium ships containing 6 Members.
The accumulated stats of both fleets would look like this:
Fleet with small ships: Total Dammage: 32, total hitpoints 80
Fleet with medium ships: Total Dammage :30,total hitpoints 96

As we see both look nearly the same as powerfull.Note that the costs for both fleets are nearly the same.
I fiiddled around a bit with Kryos fleet simulator and it showed averagely a very slight advantage for the medium hull fleet. By equipping all ships with weapons that cause 2 dmg both fleets were equally powerful. So that leads me to the question, what on earth are medium hulls good for???
9,204 views 13 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Medium hulls hold more, so you can put on some defenses/sensors/lifesupport/larger weapons/etc.

Miniturization helps bring out the advantages of the medium size hull, too.

I find that medium hulled ships tend to survive where a small hull vessel would be lost, too.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Medium Ship has 41 space:
I equipped it with with 1 Impuls drive(6 Space) + 5 Lasers V (6 Space and 1dmg), alltogether 36 space used and 5 free
Small Ship has 28 space:
I equipped it with 1Impuls drive(5 Space) + 4 Lasers V (5 Space and 1 dmg), alltogether 25 space used and 3 free


How is your 1 laser bigger then the other?
Btw i hope this was just just a quick example cause these designs...how do i say this gently...are about as effective as a delirious bantha
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Medium hulls are better for survivability. Sure, in total the fleet has only a few more HP, but one of those fighters is going to die more quickly than a medium hull, which will drop your firepower down.

This can make a big difference in close battles, especially since more of your medium hulls will survive longer, making them level up and get more HP.

As for the Lasers getting bigger, that happens with all components. Bigger ships need bigger components. The rate of increase is different for different component types.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
"Bigger ships need bigger components"

Which makes sense for the engines, armor, and perhaps sensors to a certain extent. I can but wonder about the weapons.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Try upping tech levels a few steps (use Plasma or better) and compare both ships, I'm sure you'll see a bigger difference then.
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Medium hulls are better for survivability. Sure, in total the fleet has only a few more HP, but one of those fighters is going to die more quickly than a medium hull, which will drop your firepower down.

That makes sense I agree, especially when you use beginner weapons. However I'm not sure if this is true anymore if the firepower of the ships become vastly hihgher in value than hitpoints.......
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't find medium hulls useless. When I first get them, they may not be much more powerful than small hulls if I have not researched advanced techs that give smaller components, or miniaturization. But as the game progresses they get more and more powerful as they are able to hold more things.

Their survivability is greater than small hulls, especially if they get experience and increase their hitpoints.

They are cheaper than large hulls, enabling one to have a good number of them; thus far I have used them for the bread and butter of my fleet. I have not had a game last long enough to really take advatage of large and huge hulls - but that is because I am not playing on very large maps with a lot of aI opponents, not due to my huge skill, lol.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Bigger components for bigger ships.

Engines - yes, for the same speed they would need to be larger to overcome the additional inertia.

Defenses - maybe yes and no.
Armor plating - no
The cost would go up relative to the size of the ship, not the size, for the same protection. It might take 100 lbs of Duranthium to cover a small ship one mil thick, while it would take 200 lbs to cover a medium ship with the same thickness of armor. The thickness (size) determines the protection level. The cost would go up, the protection and size should remain the same.
Shields - yes
A larger ship may require a larger shield to get the same protection because shields have a radius. The small ships shields' radius may be insufficient to surround the medium hull, and so would have to be made larger, which would raise the cost as well.
Point Defense - same as shields.

Sensors should remain the same size and cost. A sensor is like a telescope. And a 4x telescope is the same no matter the vehicle on which it is mounted.
Support should be larger and cost more because larger ships require bigger crews.

Weapons. Definitely a no.
A stinger missle is a piece of hardware with specific specs. It is the same missle no matter the vehicle on which it is mounted. It takes a larger ship to carry more of them, that's all.
Same for beams and mass drivers. Mount a .22 rifle to the hood of a VW Beetle or a Kenworth truck - same gun, same bullets, same firepower, same cost. Just the vehicle has changed, not the weapon itself.


I think either the devs should readjust these things, or one of us should make a mod for it. Because it does not seem right to have a blanket increase in size just for going to a larger hull. It takes time to research those hulls, and that is time wasted if there is no real advantage, or if the advantage is minimized.

I will probably start working on my own mod for it anyways, now that I have really thought about it.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Don't forget that minituration doesn't apply equally to all things.

That is what you are seeing for the increase in size typically.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think either the devs should readjust these things, or one of us should make a mod for it. Because it does not seem right to have a blanket increase in size just for going to a larger hull. It takes time to research those hulls, and that is time wasted if there is no real advantage, or if the advantage is minimized.


I certainly agree with you from a realism perspective. But Good gets better defenses and evil gets better weapons. Its not really fair to penalize good but not evil on their big advantage, because shield size would scale up, but weapon size wouldn't

If you mod the game, you should address that.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The trouble is, there is a SizeMod but no CostMod.
I wanted to keep the size the same and change the cost for each hull. But i can not figure out how to do it.
I added a CostMod field but it did not change the cost like the SizeMod field changes the size.

If a dev reads this, could you respond on this? Is there a way to do what I am trying to do?
Can a CostMod be coded in from an XML file, or is that type of thing only in the EXE and unmoddable?
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think armour should scale up with size because bigger ship = more surface area required = more space taken up. This is of course assuming that armour should take up space at all, which it probably shouldn't (though for balance I understand why it does).

As for the good / evil balance, just make evil wepons slightly larger. This would create a difference in fleet style, which evilr aces tending to use bigger ships than good ones, but so what?
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't think armor should take space either. It is either a plating to the hull or integrated into the material.
Cost is a different matter though. A larger ship should cost more to armor than a smaller ship.

That is why I was trying to find a cost modifier for it.