I think Resources are overpowered

~30% bonus per resource? God forbid someone gets 2 or 3 militarys.

from GalCiv2 Forums
Having been a Gal Civ 2 player since release I have come to my own humble conclusion that I think galactic rersources are way too overpowered. yeah, yeah, I know it takes 5-10 constructors, but having a starbase give you +30% to anything other than influence is overpowering.

that 30% starbase takes my 15/9 cruiser up to nearly a 20/12, ant the comp's who dont have a military starbase just cant pose even a remote threat.

THis is made all the worse when I play on a large to huge size galaxy and I manage to get 2 or more of the same type of resourrces. a 60% bonus to my ships just makes it impossible for the AI to pose any threat whatsoever. In addition, the 'curve' of the starbase, (ie starting at +2% or so and going on up to +10 or + 12% modules) wrecks the challenge f tha game just when it is getting to be a lot of fun with huge fleets of powerful ships running around.

Personally, I would MUCH prefer the resources to give a linear 2-3% per module and cap out at around 15%. This is significant without wrecking the game challenge or racial traits that make the game so much fun, especially in late-game.

Does anyone else feel this way, or do people like it to go from it being challengin to being a late-game cakewalk with 1 or 2 resource additions?

I know I am a bit of a masochist but please share with me your thoughts on the matter.

Magnifico
21,820 views 39 replies
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I do agree with you about the ressources. They seem to jump in bonus % way too fast.
Somehting like 3% / module would do the trick.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
nope, I like the way they are, these resources are supposed to give the owner an "edge" over the others and it should serve that purpose. It's like the Air Force in RTS games, Airforce is supposed to be ass kicker and yet for that "balance" reason they're nuffed most of the time to a point of rediculous.


That's why it's imperitive to secure these resources and defend them, everything is fine and good until you declare war, in which the AI seems really love going after them.


In one of my game I snatched 2 Economy resources that gave me huge boost. And although they're upgrade with attack/defense rating of "120/70" by the start of the war the AI blows up those base, and my economy take a huge dive.


The big bonus they yield warrant the strategic position element, both resource and defending wise. Later in the game I usually have to assins fleets to protect the resource around the border, add to the immersion of the game I say
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yup, they are worth fighting for and defending. The AI is getting better at doing both. I like it the way it is.

Tony
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You know... I kinda agree with you.

In my last game (Tough setting, Giant galaxy), my Civ was small and poor, but I had 2 Influence starbases. I maxed them out, then scouted enemy territory for more influence bases. I found three more. I traded everything I had for two of them, and the third belonged to the Dark Yor, so I just blew that one up, and conquered it (since it was far past mid-game, and the Dark Yor did nothing to re-inforce it).

After aquiring 5 influence starbases... my territory grew, enemy planets surrendered to me in twos per turn. I went from 4th place Civ, to Influence Victory in 25-30 turns, after attaining all 5 starbases.

I can't help to feel that it was a bit of a cheap victory. Next time around... I may just turn off Influence Victories.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The influence resources are just as insane, last game I won after <1 year of having a fully upgraded influence resource on a large map. I was about 3rd of 7 influence wise before hand but easily won once planets started flipping.
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well, I do agree that the Influence resource is insane, and it's the only resource that's needed toned down.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
well, I do agree that the Influence resource is insane, and it's the only resource that's needed toned down.


Getting two of any one kind of resource is incredibly overpowering. Two military resources means that you don't need to bother with things like weapons/defense tech nearly so much. Two econ resources means that your money making planets make 50+% more money, which means you can afford more factories/research centers, etc. Two research resources almost guarentee you the top researching spot. And so forth.

Next to the number of (good) active planets you have, the number of resources you control is the determining factor in victory. Should victory be guarenteed apriori just because one side got lucky and had two military resources right next to their homeworld?
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree. Influence starbases are the new cheese tactic.

step 1. locate resources
step 2. build up constructor fleet
step 3. buy up what you can
step 4. lightening strike wars to take resources then sue for peace. Give anything to end it.
step 5. send constructors to resources, watch influence grow and planets start to fall.
step 6. Push turn button
step 7. Repeat 6 until win.
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
These are being toned down in the 1.1 patch i believe, correct me if i am wrong
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree.

Had 3 military resources in my last game (tough/huge). My basic huge ship had over 100 in each of the 3 off. and def. capabilities... conquest victory in 10 turns or so... and a very boring 10 turns it was
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Radical thought:

Resources aren't found but work like "wonder starbases", limited to one per race. Some point along the tech tree will give you the ability to build one of each of these and you can still upgrade them, but to a lesser extent since there could be up to 9 of each type. That way they will be a little spread out among the races and more "fair".

oh, you can own more than one of each through conquest, just not build more than one of each.

Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I disagree. They aren't overpowered, just very important. Back in GC1 I would give multiple planets away just to get an influence base if I was losing badly. The influence base would at least give me a chance to get back into the game if I could negotiate a peace for a long enough time. It is just a different game dynamic, and they don't need to be nerfed.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think resources should exist on Class 0 planets instead of just floating in space. Make it so you have to survey each Class 0 to determine if a resource is there. Once the resource is "discovered" a constructor could build an orbital factory which would give away the existence of the resource to other races.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As far as i'm Conerned Infl Resources is the ONLY resource that needs to be toned down...Simply because you can win the game flat out with anymore then 2 of them...Where as the others just give you an edge, Influence Bases can make you win outright. So, yeah...i say keep the others the same and nuke Influence ones.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yup, they are worth fighting for and defending. The AI is getting better at doing both. I like it the way it is.

Tony


You are right, I want them to be worth fighting for and a definite 'edge' as an alternative to those players/AIs who get screwed in the initial colony rush. and I dont think its overpowering when you only have 1 of a given type. But when you have 2,3 or even 4 (military or influence in particular) it seems to me it kills the tech tree curve.

I figure a starbase theorectically should give you the equivalent of a 1 to 2 tech lead over your opponents, which usually is equivalent to about a 10-15% bonus to something. In weapons particularly, a 30% bonus to _both_ attack and defense is like a 8 tech lead ( 4 weapon, 4 armor) over opponents becasue the military tech line ramps up so slowly. Having 2 military starbases makes my 12/8 mid game frigates into 20/14 ships with the construction cost of a 12/8. In a fleet of 3 thats 60/45 vs. my opponents 36/24's which is an near insurmountable tech lead, especially considering I am still researching new weapons almost as fast as they are. With 3 or 4 military starbases, the AI has no hope even if they all gang up against me. they are not going to stop fleets of 24/16 frigates with 12/8's.

Now granted, I can 'Nerf' myself and just not take the military starbases. I havnt even tried the multiple influence base strategy as mentioned in the other reply. Every game I play I cant resist the military bases, and even the drengin cant stop me on genius. it tends to be an awesome struggle (this game is a masterpiece Brad, I rank you with Paul Reiche III as one of the best developers of all time, whatever that means coming from an anonymous 30 year old gamer, MD or no) but then I hit manufaturing centers and get a unbelivebaly easy (2 constructors each) 18% bonus to each of my military bases. I could be the stupid Torians and still outgun any drengin ship they can make.

So then, right as I am beginning to develop an emotional attatchment to my game arc, it becomes ludicrously easy, I wipe the drengin out with only 2 or 3 fleets (of 12/8 mediums counting as 20/14's) usually pick up a 3rd military resource base while I am at it, and search in vain for some other civ or alliance that might prove a second challenge to make the late game dramatic. but no, noone can remotely counter these ships and my brand new larges that I just built are pointless because the mediums are already clearing out the galaxy without any need for more help. So much for my dream of duking it out with Huge's.

NOTE TO BRAD (if you ever happen to read this): I have already quickly modded my own starbase modules, but I hope this illustrates some of the faults of a parabolic growth curve of the resource bases. I am trying a new game with additions of 2%, 2%, 2%, 3%, 3%, 3%, 5% (total of 20%) vs. the vanilla total of 44%

Thoughts anyone?
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Ya, that influence resource. I do not put any modules on them until late in the game, when usually the Arceans start mass producing influence starbases or or embassies or something. It is my ace in the hole to stay competitive.

My last game I had three of them, so I knew the outcome when I began the game. Load all of them up and I would have a sure victory through them alone. Sure enough.

I agree that they are a bit too powerful. Cutting them down by a third would not hurt the game play at all.
Not more than a third though. I sometimes really need it if I have a very small empire and someone else has 2/3 of the map.
Reply #19 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Influence resources:

I don't know, I don't think they're too over powered. On my last game gigantic/crippling, I was able to get 2 influence resources reletivly early in the game and I didn't win by influence victory.

However, I slow played the influence resources and ran into a galgactic condition that lowered the effect of influence.

On another note, I hate the Yor. How is it that they can play the planet grab game just as well as I can and have hugely better influence than me?
Reply #20 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The resources are perfect the way they are.

If you feel over-empowered with the resource you can sell it to the AI or you can leave it undeveloped. As long as there is an alternative to what you see as an overpowering advantage, there is no reason to impose your masochism on everyone else.
Reply #21 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Franco, uhm, its a FACT that the influence resources are ridiculously powerful- have you even played this game? I don't know why you seem to have it out for the updates that play a large part in the popularity of this game... are you actually an agent hired by a rival company to screw up stardock ?
Reply #22 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Resource starbases are fine. If you feel that you don't need them then let the AI have em. That and increase your difficulty level to something competitive and your cake walk days will be over.
Reply #23 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree with the others here - having them provide such a great benefit really makes them worth fighting for - and worth taking out their starbases if you like.

It adds another strategic layer to the game.
Reply #24 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
have you even played this game?


Are you kidding?

I am all for the changes that make the AI play more like a human and I have no problem with you or anyone else syaing what you want in the game. Do you have a problem with me saying I like it the resources as they are? If they leave them alone you have choices. If they nerf them, I don't.

I am a big SD fan, Game and OD subscriber. There have been things that I wanted that are not going to be in the game because they are not designing the game for me. If they change the resources I will live with it like I did when they nerfed my favorite weapon tech but I am ready for the game to be final and ready to start looking forward to expansion.
Reply #25 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Nano rippers FTW!