Unused Social Spending routed to military spending (or back to treasury if nothing is being used)

from GalCiv2 Forums
How will this work? I am concerned this will work worse than advertised by other players.

The problem is if I spend 150 (Military) on a Ship that only costs 120, does that 30 go back into my treasury? I don't know that It does, and adding the Social +50 to the 150 only makes it 200 spending on a ship that costs 120. So the end result would be 80 wasted. If thats an accurate account of what will happen I'm not sure it will help much with waste. I don't see how it solves anything, and only increased the problem of accurately figuring out how much you need to Build a ship at a Colony. If I have to add 38 Social to 128 Military to figure out how much is being spent on a ship in every colony then it would cause alot of problems. You would have to continually add numbers together to figure out how much is being spend on your ships every time you touch the slider. And if you wanted to reduce waste by making sure your Capitols are producing ships without too much waste, this will cause a huge problem because you now have to add every Social and Military every time you adjust the slider to figure out how much is being spent on the Ship.

I'm not sure this (transfer to military) is a good Idea unless the unused currency from Ships isn't wasted, I wouldn't want to spend 200 on a 120 ship and find out that the +50 from Social just went into another way that wastes it. The only time I see this improve your situation is to shut down your Manufacturing Capitol all together, not building a ship or building, then you save some BCs for not building anything. But, who wants to build a Manufacturing Capitol that doesn't produce anything at all?

So I think Social should go back to the Treasury, or rather not be spent at all if no building is in production. But then if there was no waste, then you would be running your Economy at 100% and the AI would suffer some because it relies on inefficiency from the player.

So that leaves only one option for now. That is not to change it until we have a more information and figure out if this is the right way we want the games economy to be run.
11,058 views 10 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Good points, I vote to put social back into the treasury... it just makes more sense.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here is how they will do it:

Link

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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I think any excess military / social spending should go to the next ship / plantery improvement, as is the case with research. Instead of unused social spending going to military spending, I think it should just go back to the treasury!
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would just be thankful they made it the way it is. It a lot more efficient than the other way already.

Frogboy already discussed putting it back into the treasury. It was not done because it would cause radical net bc changes, and it would make your managing your ecomony pretty useless- there wouldn't be much strategy anymore.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I vote to make it customizible as to where unspent funds should go from Social or military.

Research is not the sort of thing that ever gets finished, but for Military and Social, they can be, when your either building no ships or when you have no further improvements to develop.

You should be able to choose if the funds go back into the treasury, or to military, or to research.

When I decided to go for a tech victory, it was a shockingly long slog to pull off. I often ended up dialing resarch way the hell down so I could force my social improvements to be outright finished, and would then dump cash back into research. It would have been nice to be able to push Social spending way the hell up and divert unused spending to research.

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Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
later on 90% of the time a planet is not building, so you will get an OBSCENE amount of money if its done like this.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
trasfering social to military is great witjout the case, i think it results in MUCH less waste than current system...


pri reason being under current system if you want rush out ships you have to pump up miltary spending, which seriously impact the development of all planets, while on onther hand if you have a fully developed production planet, evem on 10% social spending, its still wasting far to much money, if it was transfer to military then at least the reasorce could be churning out fress constructors or new warships
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Here are some of the problems I think might occur from this Social to Military system.

1. Inability to tell what production is needed for your ships. You'll have to add Social and Military Production together. Only you wont know what the Social base number is, so it would be useless without a calculator by your side to do the math.

If Planet X has 70 Military, and 30 Social, you will be able to tell that 70 goes into 140 two times. So you could build a 140 Colony Ship in 2 turns. Thats the Current system.

If Planet X has 70 Military, and 30 Social, you will be unable to tell what Social number transfers over from 30. You won't get all 30 Social because much of it will be Bonuses that don't transfer over. So you would have to bring a Calculator, find the Bonuses for Social, minus the Bonuses from the 30 Social, find out its say 20 Base, now you take that 20 and add it to 70 Military. Now you find out that Planet X has about 90 Military, only you had to spend 5 minutes figuring it out. Now you can go create a ship that is about 180 Cost and build it within 2 turns. You wouldn't be able to figure things out as easily using the Social to Military system.

2. No bonuses applied to your Socially transferred to Military production. So changing the slider to full blast Military and nothing in Social would still be the most affective means to reduce waste.

I covered some of why this is a problem is #1

3. Changing sliders would have much more fluctuations than they are now. If I had Social at 50 and Military at 10, and I change it to 25 and 35, the fluctuations be too large. Right now you can look at the money being spent and say to yourself. Ok at 287 spending my two Manufacturing planets are producting Colony ships in 2 turns each with a little waste. You decide you want to trim this pork alittle. So you reduce your military alittle, and now you click the slider one down and all the the sudden all your ships built everywhere are not producing in 2 turns but in 3 or 4 turns because the bonus never applies to the Social, so increasing it adds to the ship but in turn isn't as efficient. So you wonder how much money is now being spent on Military or Social, and now you can't figure it out because Military is still stuck at 287 but your ships aren't producing at 2 turns now. And you wonder why that is, well its because your spending the same BASE amount on the ships, but the Bonuses aren't being applied to the social that was transfered over to military. SO you wouldn't be able to ever tell from looking at money being spent by your empire on rather or not your efficient as you can do right now.

So lets say they don't change add the Social to the Military and keeps it seperate on the Domestic Stats: Expenses- So now you would see your spending 280 something on Military and your spending more on Social, but you wont REALLY know how much money is going to Military because a good quarter or so of your Social is being transfered over to Military without you seeing it. You would be unable to tell how much is going over there.

So in the end, from all the frustration you resort to the 100% military, 0% Social slider. And then you just focus social when you have buildings, and take focus off when you don't have buildings.

4. The waste for overspending on ships or buildings is not refunded. As someone said there would be huge shifts in how the treasury worked. So you won't get refunded on your purchases, if I have a 200+ Industrial Giant producing 100 Waste in Social, and I build a Ship that is 200 then that 100 Social transfered over to Military is STILL wasted. Its just wasted another way. Its just musical chairs. The waste goes to another chair to be wasted. ONTOP of this waste, you wont be able to tell how fast you can produce your ships, what the accurate Military production is because you have to calculate social base and minus it from the Military to find out what the numbers are. It just makes things a heck of alot more confusing and frustrating.

5. No Social Spending if no Building. Money shouldn't be spent on Social if a building isn't in the Queue. Donald Trump probably doesn't pay the boggy man for building nothing. It makes good business practice. If money from the Treasury is never spent on Social, without a Building in the Queue, just like it is never spent on Military, without a ship in the Queue, then the Treasury would not fluctuate at all. The only arguement is that you would waste alot less which might give you an added advantage over the AI.

6. KISS - the Social to Military System is not simple, not taking funds from the Treasury with no Ship in the Queue is simple. And it can be applied to the Social System aswell.
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
later on 90% of the time a planet is not building, so you will get an OBSCENE amount of money if its done like this.


If I'm not building any social projects on any of my planets I drop the social spending slider down to 0% anyway, so there's no difference there. The only time I raise it is when I get a new building upgrade for my planets or when I'm building a wonder.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I'd love to see the surplus production overflow to the next build. 1 week per planetary improvement at 20% or 80% social spending means a lot of waste. I'd love to zip though tedious small upgrades, the way you sometiems can with research. I'd also love to see overflow from colony ship building - the computer can tweak the numbers every turn to maximize building, it's annoying to do so as a human.
But eliminating wasted social production is good. There's a screenie in the journals with social (6) next to military 134+(6), if you are worried about how it will work.