GCFL GCFL

Retreat!!!

▼

Retreat!!!

Gett'n the heck out

from GalCiv2 Forums
Well, I am having a great time with this game. It has taken me a couple of games to get to the point where I can last long enough to hit some of the real stratagy in the game and as a result, have one idea I would love to suggest....let me retreat!!

It would be nice if while my biggest and baddest capital ship is getting its but kicked, I could select a button during the battle to allow my other lessor ships to retreat. I would think each ship could have a retreat modifier that would calculate its chances of success (perhaps related to engine tech) Then the ship would be placed 2 parsecs out from the enemy ship or fleet. I always seem to develop engines pretty slowly so this would be one more reason to keep in pace with engine techs.

What does everyone else think?
27,526 views 35 replies
Reply #26 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

@ GCFL: Erm, dunno?

I just made up some numbers. I think, particularly in the early game, the 75/50/25 splits would be too fine for the coarse grain of the damage vs hitpoints calculations anyway. Might be simplest just to have:

1. Fight to the death
2. Fight to half-damage
3. Retreat at first damage

With 1 being default for any ship or fleet with 1 point or more of attack strength, and an invisible 4th option ('Run like the clappers!') being the default for entirely unarmed units.

Half-damage on a fleet would simpyly be the lesser of half the total hitpoints or half the number of ships, I suppose.

Though lately, I've been fond of BattleStar Groups - one heavily armoured biggie and a support of as many sharp-toothed fighters as my Logistics will allow. Fighters get parallel built on junk planets and are cheaply replacable, but provide an awesome first-turn throw-weight, whereas biggies get lovingly crafted at my Manufacturing Capital and hope to survive every fight. In the fleet orders system, I might find them retreating to soon on Retreat at half-damage - I sometimes expect the entire Viper wing to get wiped out, only for the Battlestar to finish off rhe enemy survivors. I guess that Fight to the death would still be my option of choice, there.

Perhaps the retreat chance should also take account of the enemy Fleet order - if they're both on Retreat at first damage, then the chance of retreat is higher than if the enemy is on Fight to the death. That would be invisible, though.

As to applying it, I think it would be over-complicated to split a fleet's 'roll' across its individual ships. Either it makes the roll, and the remaining ships escape, or it fails, and they all die. Either way, however, making the roll forfeits all remaining attacks, so the enemy takes no more damage.

A potential nasty is what happens if the enemy fleet is the attacker and still has movement? They can then just attack again. Should a fleet default to order 4 during any enemy move in which they have already taken order 2 or 3? Would we then find ourselves slamming into AI constructors multiple times in order to kill them?

Taking account of the remaining moves helps here - a ship which has already moved its full allowance would have (next to?) zero chance to retreat. But GCII ships move at turn END - that could throw a spanner in the works.

The idea needs a bit more input from better brains than mine...
Reply #27 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

There is a retreat option already no? You can set it for your ships in the options you wallies

I disagree with the option to select your target, as the whole point of putting a troop ship with a fleet is to protect it, and if you can target the troop ship it makes a mockery of the fleet, and would make it too easy to destroy the ai troopers.

The one time the AI has a chance is when it puts its troopers in with a fleet, if you make it so you can select the target all i do is make a small fast fighter with one lazer on it, fly in and wack the trooper. Very lame.

I do think the other ideas are cool though, to be able to target specific parts of the ships ect, and to be able to board them, but of course thats a whole different game!
Groupy 2 - Organize multiple applications into grouped tabs on your Windows desktop
Reply #28 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Who's to say boarding is even reasonalbe in this game world. Might be hundreds of reasons why it's not possible or effective.

I too thought it would be nice to be able to take out the transport in a fleet (the only real threat to a world). But yeah who's to say the transport is even really there. Yea it's on the screen but game world wise it could just be your fleet running it down after the defenders have been removed.

There is plenty of tactical before you enter the battle screen. Leave it be.
Reply #29 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree. The lack of any control over the battle is pretty annoying. It would be nice to be able to cut your losses and live to fight another day.


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo and NOOOOOOOOO to the OP. Would you want an I win button to go with your changes?
Reply #30 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
> There is a retreat option already no? You can set it for your ships in the options you wallies

Guess these aren't the better brains I seek.

I do take the point that there is plenty of tactical manouevring before the fight. But this discussion has been about providing options beyond the utter victory or annihilation dichotomy. Whether such options are desireable is part of the discussion, certainly. My view is that the idea is attractive, even though any implementation would produce problems of its own - particularly with regard to non-combatants.

It's hardly worth an shouting about, though - it'll never be added in, after all.

And there already is an 'I Win' button, except only the random number generator gets to press it. It's called the Lucky Ranger.
Reply #31 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My only suggestion was to be able to retreat...I can't speak to the other options. I am not at a place I can test the retreat option on the ships so I will look for it. I doubt it however since no one else has mentioned it here.

Anyway, the discussion seems to have lost some of it's "manners" so I will move on.

BTW...the Lucky Rangers are great for players like me who can't seem to fight out of a paper bag...even on settings as low as normal!

Reply #32 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't like the retreat idea that much. As I mentioned in another post on this subject, it can get annoying in RTW when you have to chase down retreating armies. It doesn't really add that much to the game, even though it's historically realistic (in the context of that particular game). The second battle is never that much fun because you're fighting a depleted unit that doesn't have a chance. When you win a battle decisively, you want your next move to be advancing your main strategic goals, not wasting movement points chasing down stragglers from the last battle. "Scattering the enemy" isn't a great strategy either, because a decent AI will, given time, consolodate those assets. You'll just have to fight them all over again at some point.

It also encourages poor military tactics, I think. You should never takes ships into combat on either the attacking or defending side, unless you have a reasonable chance of winning the battle. You might be outnumbered and outclassed in a desperate defensive situation, it's true. But if you're in that situation to begin with, then the ability of one or two ships to escape the battle isn't going to help you that much. And the agressor/attacker shouldn't need a retreat option, if their military strategy is sound.

If it *was* added to the game, I think it should apply only to the side that didn't attack first, and there should be no HP gain for surviving the battle. Maybe there should also be added "free" movement points given to the winner of the battle, so you can decide to chase down the runners, or do something more useful. I think RTW works something like this, with extra movement points after battles. But I still think it's not a great idea, and would slow down the flow of the game.
Reply #33 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
You make some good points. I do not agree with all of them but it does warrant the need for an "Enable Fleet Retreat" option in the game set-up. That way all of this would not matter for people who would rather not use it.

I realize it would most likely not be added to the game but I think it would be a fun addition all the same.
Reply #34 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There is a retreat option already no? You can set it for your ships in the options you wallies


Heheheh! This is my favourite post on this thread!


That way all of this would not matter for people who would rather not use it.


Bear in mind GCFL, that everyone who has come up with an idea they like has also made this point. At the end of the day, we can't have a squillion options like this or everyone will be playing a different game! Not to mention the sheer man hours that would need to go in just to enable things like this for everyone that made a request!

Not that I am saying yours is a bad idea, just that there are ultimately lots of potentially good ideas that are just that - ideas, wishes, hopes etc. I have had them for every game I've ever played so I totally understand.... but we can't really expect to have much control over the design process even though Stardock do really listen to what fans say and develop their own ideas accordingly!
Reply #35 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree. I was not making that point flippently...just that some option are just that... options. I am not in the business of software design so I have no idea of the man hours required. Just sharing an idea...you never know...the game gods may just agree.