Quality vs. Quantity: Beware feature creep!

UI improvements are critical before new features.

With all extras being added to GC2:Dark Avatar, my comment is to be very careful about feature creep and bloat. GalCiv2 is without a doubt a fantastic game. Don't break it by enhancing it, so to speak. Before the obvious rebuttals to that comment come, please understand: I want cool new features too! I just think care needs to be taken to refine what is there before taking on too many new things.

The UI of a strategy game is critical! As these games are complex by nature, without a clear easy-to-use interface they can become cumbersome.
It is important that the player understand the mechanics of the game elements as easily/quickly as possible (moderate learning curve). The effort expended should be on the execution of strategy (the fun part) not the comprehension/navigation of the toolset (the tedious part).

IMHO, the UI in GalCiv2 should be the #1 priority for improvement above any new feature. While not bad, there is a lot of room for improvement. In general, more information should be available with less clicks and the cause/effect of actions should be obvious. I know that UI improvements are slated for the expansion but I wanted to stress it again as I feel it's really important. If new functionality is added and UI usability not improved proportionately, it will be problematic.

I believe the two hardest parts of learning this game (and therefore the biggest barriers to entry for the not-so-hardcore) are:

1. MASTERING THE TECH TREE - There is a wealth of information here that you must understand if you are to research effectively. At present, it's like trying to understand at a huge map of the world through a tiny magnifying glass. To get information, you must click on a specific technology. Why can't research times/costs be shown graphically? Perhaps icons associated with a tech showing whether it allows a new building/trade good/super-project/etc. There are of course many ways to do it but the idea being more information with less hunting/clicking.

2. ESTABLISHING A SUSTAINABLE ECONOMY AT THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME - How many players go broke within the first couple of years? Perhaps more importantly, how many have no idea how to avoid this? The cause/effect of this failure is not clear. I had to read many forum postings before I clued in. It's not that I wanted to be told a winning strategy, I'm happier to figure that out for myself. But, as the cause/effect wasn't clear I didn't know how to make intelligent changes to my strategy. For example: Population growth (a value that is not shown anywhere I can find) is critical at the game start which is tied to your approval rating which is tied to tax rate. When you are running out of money it is counterintuitive that it can be helpful to lower your tax rate to increase your population and therefore future tax base.

Improvements to the UI could address both these issues (and others such as ship management, etc.) to make the game much more enjoyable without adding a single new feature! Learning to tweak your strategy is fun as long as you understand cause/effect. If you're just shooting blind by trial and error, it can get frustrating. As I said, I'm not suggesting that no new features get added! But, I think it's important that the existing UI be polished before moving on to bigger and better things.

All that said, I'm very excited about the expansion and have the confidence to preorder when it becomes available. Good luck with the bug-hunt guys! I look forward to trying the beta.
13,851 views 18 replies
Reply #1 Top
You make a number of valid points. First of all, I think that the early game economy is far too difficult. If I had just picked up this game and updated to 1.3, I'd probably have put it down after running a debt for 3 years.

Of course, I don't have that problem, but I don't expect that new players will immediately know about all of these connections.

Concerning the UI: I want one major change. I want the time part of the timeline graphs to be more controllable. I want to see when wars (even ones I wasn't involved in) started and ended, and I want to be able to look at the total power situation throughout the galaxy (think expanded powerbar thing).

Espionage is nice, but the interface for it is terrible. A list of researched technologies does not help me figure out how to counter an enemy. I would like to be able to view an opponents entire tech tree, just as I can view mine.

Personally though, I don't think Stardock will let these new features get in the way of improving what's already there.
Reply #2 Top
My concerns are more the AI then the UI. Don't implement things that the player can exploit the AI with...

Reply #3 Top
I really hope they upgrade the ship design area. I have scenes pictures with news photos for templates of ships. This is a step.

My dream ship designer would allow you to design your ship. Then you save the design template of this ship.

Secondly, you can also assign the hardpoints to a specific type of component. I could assign weapon harpoints, defense, logisitics, sensor, engines, Special (trade/colony), etc.


Third, you simply click a weapon to add it. Then it would add it so a weapon hardpoint. You then could click rotate to rotate the number of components through the various possible positition combinations on the hardpoints. (Manual clicking of the hardpoint would work as well.)

The reason I would like this feature is I tend to use the same shell design for say all my medium sized ships on the game. It is absolutely frustrating to update the ships and all their components. Either you keep the old ones but then still have to find them on toolbar to delete them, or your ship gets wiped clean for you to redo it all. Its a various tedious process. I would simply like to keep old ships, go into upgrade screen and have my weapons replaced by the new models without having to delete then reattach (which on complex ships is a pain to get the exact hardpoint). Then simply rotate them to a new positionally combination if I have more or less now so that it looks cool


The only other UI or general feature, is modules on starbases. We really need to either find a new mechanic for this upgrading, or a better UI system than rally point. I'd like an option on starbases that allow you to do three things. First, chose which starports automatically send this base constructor modules when completed. (Reverse actually probably would work better? but who knows) It would also need a feature to rank it on priority of starbases if multiple starbases are assinged to one starport.

Secondly, we need to assign it priority list or non-build ist of which upgrades to build. Most economy starbases, I only build the economy boosting (maybe trade route ones). Same with the mining ones. Mobil fleets tend to work better as defense and cost significantly less hassle.

Sorry for the rant, but I never post on these forums. I do love the game, but the tedium of starbases and upgrading ships kills me.

P.S. There really does need to be more scroll over, etc. information on the UI. Scrolling over the tax rate on the planet should tell me if I get a bonus to growth or not as the colors from my understanding do not match the boost to growth. (Oh make farm boosting tile squares valuable again either by giving them a morale boost etc. too.)
Reply #4 Top
Forget it. I completely agree with your post, however I seriously doubt they'll do much better this time around.

I personally would rather a smaller set of changes for DA; that is play tested out the wazoo to get the balance and AI done right. There recent desicion to add more stuff really scares me. The current version still needs work IMO (polishing), and they're going to add a huge update ?

Lets see, the AI is almost there with planetary management. (still see planets with 3-4 factories, and no starport) It still can't build fast ships, and it still doesn't react to me using defense. (unless you play Obscene or higher, where the AI is getting so many bonuses it can manage to suprise you)

Worse are the dumb things the AI still does. Like not check around it's planets for my stack of 10 transports that any piss-ant fighter could wipe out.

Don't get me wrong, I love the game. But probably the reason I'm still playing is because it's only now approaching what it should have been from the start.
Reply #5 Top
Maybe if you weren't pirating the game, you wouldn't have these problems.

Ship design and upgrading is easy. Just obsolete designs that you know you won't use anymore. There's a big button that says "OBSOLETE." Try it.

If you don't want old designs showing up during the game, delete them from your My Documents directory before starting another game.

Easy, pleasey, Japanesey.
Reply #6 Top

I don't think the average new player has a problem with economy (especially in 1.3) because most new players don't immediately go into the tax/spend screen and increase spending to 100%.

 

Reply #7 Top
YEAH! the ui... its so UI like..... and... with UIness...

Whats UI?
Reply #8 Top

My dream ship designer would allow you to design your ship. Then you save the design template of this ship.

Your wish is my command.

Reply #9 Top
Whats UI?


It's the UI in GUI! (User Interface)   
Reply #10 Top
There's 2 parts of the UI that annoy me to no end.

#1, the auto popups. Hate them with a passion. I have all the ones turned off I can find how to turn off. The diplomacy and research success popups are what now cause me headaches. When managing an empire with a few dozen planets, it is annoying as heck to have one or the other of those screen pop up automatically when I'm busy working a planet.
All too often, I'll be plotting development items into their squares or when just finished with that, clicking on the ship que button on the upper right of that window when BANG! Research done screen comes up and kicks me out of the planet management screen.

Also, I can target a planet of mine and see on the primary UI screen what the progress is on ship build but have to drill down a level to find out how things are progressing in my planet construction que.

Drill down and pop ups are evil.
Reply #11 Top
Gallagher,

"It should have been like from the start..." Pretty silly statement.

Care to name any game with A.I. as good as 1.3 version of this game has upon release?
Reply #12 Top
I really hope they upgrade the ship design area.


Me too.

An auto-upgrade button, (as featured in Space Empires) would make a very nice addition to the game.

Not that I'm hinting, or anything Brad!
Reply #13 Top
I really hope they upgrade the ship design area


Definitely. Cluttered shipyards are my biggest pet peeve right now. I have to limit myself to one game at a time so I can erase everything in my ship folder after each game.

Also, the option to turn off the core designs. Who uses them?

PS why are quotes broken? if I put two quotes in one thread it messes everything up.
Reply #14 Top
With all extras being added to GC2:Dark Avatar, my comment is to be very careful about feature creep and bloat. GalCiv2 is without a doubt a fantastic game. Don't break it by enhancing it, so to speak. Before the obvious rebuttals to that comment come, please understand: I want cool new features too! I just think care needs to be taken to refine what is there before taking on too many new things.


I have to second this. Even though it's a lot more exciting to have new features, refining the system adds more value to the features already there.
Reply #15 Top
Also, the option to turn off the core designs.


Click the 'user ships' tab.
Reply #16 Top
PS why are quotes broken? if I put two quotes in one thread it messes everything up.


Are you copying the second block of text to the clipboard, before pressing the quote button?

The way to do it is:

1) Select the first block of text, and press quote.

2) Select the second block of text, right-click on it, and copy it to the clipboard - then press quote.

I hope this helps.







Reply #17 Top
Ship design and upgrading is easy. Just obsolete designs that you know you won't use anymore. There's a big button that says "OBSOLETE." Try it.


Managing ships is not as easy as it should be. Let's take an upgrade example:

Say I have 35+ fighters that I want to upgrade to a killer new design. I select a single fighter to upgrade then click on the 'upgrade all' option but am informed that it's going to cost way more than I can afford. So I decide to just upgrade say 15-20 of them. How do you upgrade just a subset? You can't. You can't even upgrade members of a fleet. You must bust the fleet apart and and upgrade each one individually. That's a lot of tedium and unnecessary clicking IMO.
Reply #18 Top
Maybe ships from planets...

Now that you mention it, I'd like to upgrade ships without leaving orbit. Doesn't seem possible. Maybe ships upgraded by class, i.e. Los Angeles class vessels, would be a good way to choose subsets.

I'd like an option at the start to discard user ships at the end of the game...

OR...

In the ship builder to discard certain designs at the end of the game.