About 1UP's Demigod Rating

They claimed they would re-review the game at a later date once multiplayer was more functional, so I wouldn't worry about it yet.  

yeah its a nit pick i noticed the same thing to

but wut do u proprose metacritic do, and this would affect more than just stardock...

The school grade system is for different purposes and would not make sense for critiquing games or movies. In the school ratings systems, the grades are concentrated above the 59% mark because a true average student would in theory get around 79% to a 70%. In movies and video games, a true mediocre game in theory would get 50%. Since C means "average," a student would get a C for 79% to 70% if he was average and games and movies would get a 50 if it was average.

Don't know if it makes sense or not.

On metacritic it says 50/100.

Well because people have trouble with 65-75% being a good grade on a linear 0-100 scale reviewers don't use "50% is average" as a measure, the average score these days is closer to about 70%.

 

So comparing it to a school grading system like that is actually kinda valid.

True, but in theory the average should be around 50. In practice for schools, the average is definitely closer to the 80s - 90s depending on where you go, what class you take, and your grade. Despite that fact, I have only met one teacher who has been willing to redefine "C" closer to what the average in practice should be. I've met a lot of teachers and that teacher doesn't even teach at the standard level. Video game/movie/books/whatnot critique is based on an opinion, and it would only make sense to uitilize the whole scale of 1-100 when converting from the ABC scale. Grades are based on your performance on a test and educators believe that the typical student should score about 70-79%.

Or I would assume that way. Since it is the opinion of 1up, 1up should get the final say on the conversion rate.

 

I'm not talking about any other game than Demigod, Im purposing metacritic reevlauate what a C is. I'd buy a game with a C rating, I would almost certainly pass up a game 50/100. Others might too.

I emailed the writer of the 1UP article earlier today.  Frankly, I am annoyed about the interpretation by metacritic of his score, and thought from his review he would not say a strongly recommended C if he thought the game only deserved a 50%.

He said frankly that the metacritic interpretatuion of his grade is wrong, dead wrong.  Furthermore he stated he has had numerous conversations with metacritic over this and they continue to do it.  He intended the score to be interpreted at ~75%.  He said I could email metacritic, but he was tired of emailing them corrections.

Interesting.

I emailed Metacritic a few moments ago.  Unfortunately I did not save a copy of the comment submission.  If they do not reply soon, I would strongly encourage you all to email them as well.  I wil provide info shortly.

 

 

Just sent one out suggesting they contact the reviewer and ask for what he interprets C as a number to be.

Liking these guys at metacritic, just got a response

Original message: 

"Hi, I wanted to ask something about not only the Demigod interpretation of 1UP's review but of all 1UP's reviews. It seems you take "C" to be a 50% which I find to be hardly accurate, as well as the 1UP reviewers. A 5/10 in the review industry is pretty appalling, basically giving a major thumbs down to a product whereas a C in most cases means average, acceptable but needs improvement. The 50 score you marked for Demigod is significantly effecting it's overall score and will likely deter gamers from buying it. Considering the small amount of exposure the game has gotten it is definitely jeopardizing the future support of this game if it does not sell well and I would ask that you contact 1UP and ask them what they think a fair number score is. Thanks a lot,

Will"

Reply

"Hey Will,

I'm actually going to cut-and-paste a response to essentially the same question I just received from another user who had a question about our conversion of the 1up Demigod score, so here it is.  Let me know if I can answer any more questions about it:

"I sympathize with your plight here because letters are certainly imprecise and are open to interpretation. I can tell you that our conversion scale is principled, and that all games, films, albums, and TV shows are treated identically, which is important to know.   Did 1up's critic you spoke with also explain to you why they changed from their very precise numbers system to letters?  It's an interesting story that I'm sure someone over there would be willing to share with you if you bugged them enough.  And did he also  describe to you how they converted all of their 5.0 scores in Jan of 2008 when they did their full inventory conversion to letters? They converted all 5.0 scores to "C", which is exactly how we do it in reverse.  For example, the game Spider-Man 3 was given a score of 5.0 by 1up in May of 2007, which 1up and sister site EGM defined as "Average".  After the conversion to letters in 2008, that 5.0 score became a "C".  So I can't quite understand how they can be so indignant about our converting their "C" to 5.  But believe me, the 1up crew and I have spent hours discussing this very issue on the phone.  We simply agree to disagree.

But on a more philosophical level, and without regard to 1up, if you convert letters to numbers the way they do in school, an "F" would equate to 58, all Ds would be in the 60s, all Cs would be in the 70s, etc.  That simply doesn't work when you're aggregating scores in my mind, but of course there are many schools of thought on this issue.  Which is the major downside to using letters.  No two people envision an identical letters to numbers conversion.  What I can tell you is that the 1up and EGM crews were well aware of how Metacritic and Game Rankings converted letters to numbers when they went to letters, and our scoring conversions haven't changed since 2001 we launched.  I agreed not to disclose their full conversion scale as of 2008, but I can tell you that we're not that far off from them."

Marc Doyle
metacritic.com"

The only intelligent solution is to not include 1UP scores in a Metacritic score.  It compromises not only 1UPs position on a game but also Metacritic's overall accuracy and integrity with all of the products reviewed by 1UP.  Including it at all doesn't make any sense, the choice to include 1UPs letter rating on 100 point scale system is kind of ridiculous regardless of whether or not they receive a direct conversion scale from 1UP as each person's interpretation of the letter grade will be different.

Personally I think the letter grade system for reviewing games is a great one that more reviewers should adopt.  Numerical scores are too technical for something as subjective as reviews I think.

It seems the two dispise one another.

Original message to 1UP:

Scott,

I am writing you regarding your review of Demigod and Metacritics subsequent interpretation of that letter grade.  On your review you called Demigod a "highly-recommended C game", noting that its multiplayer needed work.  I most definately agree with you on that, as well as this game having the potential to be a great multiplayer game.

Unfortunately, Metacritic used by many gamers converts your C grade to a 50% by defualt.  I highly doubt, given your review, that you would have given Demigod a 50%.  To me your review sounded like you would have given it a 75% at the time.  etacritic allows the critic to change their number if they believe metacritic misinterpretted it.  I would greatly appreciate you contacting metacritic to chage this at:

http://www.metacritic.com/about/contact.shtml

I think this would more accurately reflect your review.  On top of that, it would help to improve the metascore, which may help improve sales and keep the community growing.  Thanks so much.

John

 

Original message from 1UP:

See below letter for only nice things possible to take from this letter.  Seems inappropriate to post the letter given its tone.

 

Original message to Metacritic:

Game Editor,

I am writing in regard to your Metacritic score of Demigod., specifically the score you attribute to it by 1up.  You attribute the score of C as a 50%.  I understand this is your scoring interpretation, but feel it is fundamentally flawed in this particular case and deserves some review on your behalf.

I and many of my friends use Metacritic as a resource for a compiled statistical analysis of all the reviews.  I was shocked by the score you attributed to 1up and decided to read the article through.  The article for the most part could be described as highly favorable.   Given the tone of the review, that you would have given Demigod a 50%.
In his review you called Demigod a "highly-recommended C game", noting that its multiplayer needed work.  To me this review sounded like he would have given it a 75% at the time.  I decided to email the writer of the article.

I explained the above points in the email, and waited for his reply.  He replied that he was "abundantly aware of what Metacritic does to our review scores."  He further stated that, "They know where our scores should land on a 1-100 scale, because we've told them ourselves."  He then advised me to contact you and bring this issue to your attention.

I think correcting  this to a 75% would more accurately reflect his review.  On top of that, it would help to improve the metascore, which may help improve sales and keep the community growing.  Thanks so much.  I look forward to the correction or a further reply on this subject.

John Kowalczyk

 

Reply from Metacritic

Hey John,

I sympathize with your plight here because letters are certainly imprecise and are open to interpretation. I can tell you that our conversion scale is principled, and that all games, films, albums, and TV shows are treated identically, which is important to know.   Did 1up's critic you spoke with also explain to you why they changed from their very precise numbers system to letters?  It's an interesting story that I'm sure someone over there would be willing to share with you if you bugged them enough.  And did he also  describe to you how they converted all of their 5.0 scores in Jan of 2008 when they did their full inventory conversion to letters? They converted all 5.0 scores to "C", which is exactly how we do it in reverse.  For example, the game Spider-Man 3 was given a score of 5.0 by 1up in May of 2007, which 1up and sister site EGM defined as "Average".  After the conversion to letters in 2008, that 5.0 score became a "C".  So I can't quite understand how they can be so indignant about our converting their "C" to 5.  But believe me, the 1up crew and I have spent hours discussing this very issue on the phone.  We simply agree to disagree.

But on a more philosophical level, and without regard to 1up, if you convert letters to numbers the way they do in school, an "F" would equate to 58, all Ds would be in the 60s, all Cs would be in the 70s, etc.  That simply doesn't work when you're aggregating scores in my mind, but of course there are many schools of thought on this issue.  Which is the major downside to using letters.  No two people envision an identical letters to numbers conversion.  What I can tell you is that the 1up and EGM crews were well aware of how Metacritic and Game Rankings converted letters to numbers when they went to letters, and our scoring conversions haven't changed since 2001 we launched in 2001.  I agreed not to disclose their full conversion scale as of 2008, but I can tell you that we're not that far off from them.

Best,

Marc Doyle
metacritic.com

Game is almost unplayable. Id be happy with a C rank.

 

The issues isnot with the C rank so much as the number interpretation of what a C translates to.  Please read above before contributing/hate-spamming.

50% is the standard for all C ranked reviews across the board. You want a special exception for 1up? Good luck with that billy.

"If you're interested in throwing down cash for a beta and maybe getting in some practice before things get smoothed out, go ahead and bump that score up a letter grade. Anybody else should find something else to do until then."

Sure seems like a 50% review to me.

 

Trust me, I talked with him.  He intended it to be a 75% and is livid with metacritic that they continually do this.

The problem isnt with 1UP, the problem is with Metacritic.

And while I normally dont have a problem with aggregation, it breaks down in terms of reviews since there is no golden standard for how things should be done.

Sure you could argue that 1UP should cater to the majority of the gaming media where 75-80% is average instead of 50% but that would just worsen the problem instead of taking a stand against it. As long as different media use different yardsticks for grading games then metacritic should be taken with a great degree of salt.

"But on a more philosophical level, and without regard to 1up, if you convert letters to numbers the way they do in school, an "F" would equate to 58, all Ds would be in the 60s, all Cs would be in the 70s, etc.  That simply doesn't work when you're aggregating scores in my mind, but of course there are many schools of thought on this issue.  Which is the major downside to using letters.  "

 

Uh, no. It's the major downside to aggregating review scores without taking into account how the different review scores scale. And 1Up went out of their way at the time of the change to letters to say that people shouldn't try to reverse engineer their scores to get a number. They only did it to be consistent, and there was a huge debate about whether thy should.  

http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/pc/demigod

 

77/100

 

8.1/10

 

After the patch i think the developers need to re-review.

 

With 1Up properly listed at 75%, the metascore would be 79.5/100.

 

Aah i see yeah that doesnt make much sense how does a C become a 50 when 50/100 is obviously an 'F'. What a bunch of fucking failures at metacritic.

I think it'd make more sense for 1UP to change their ranking system to the pretty much universally accepted 100% system, or the slightly less popular - but still a zillion times more popular than giving games a schoolwork style grade - 5/5 system.