McLovin_Nice McLovin_Nice

Sins on Steam?

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Sins on Steam?

from Stardock Forums
Just a suggestion that Sins should be made available on Steam. Hope I'm posting it in the right place.

For those who don't know, Steam is a digital distribution programme. You have an account, where you can access all your purchased games (it offers a varied and great selection). You can buy new games there. They can be accessed at any computer, by simply logging in. They auto-update. It has a great community.

I think Sins can benefit from this.

Now, you'll probably say "Stardock offers this!" I don't personally know how it works, but I'm guessing it works in a similar way to steam. So why should Sins be made available on steam? No doubt it will increase sales and add to the community.

I think it would be great if this was made possible. I know I'd buy it from Steam, as would many others. It makes things simpler having downloaded games together, rather than, say, Steam for some games, stardock for others, along with Direct2Drive etc.

In terms of just ease of use, it will make the game more accessible for many. Steam offers various other features which will be beneficial to Sins, such as messengers, server browser (which may not be applicable here) and community groups.

But the main point is that it will definitely provide a larger market and make it easier to acquire, thus meaning better sales etc.

Also, as there is no retail version available in Europe, it will make it much more easily available here.

It's not hard to get a game on Steam I would think. Lots of new games come out on it, whether they are big releases or from small independant developers.

What do you think?

I'm also hoping someone from Stardock sees this and considers it.

:)




124,654 views 143 replies
Reply #76 from Sins Forums Top
You don't have to be connected to the Internet to play SP Steam games. Go into the Steam options, check the appropriate boxes to have Steam cache your user information, and it'll work fine if you're offline (Steam will launch in offline mode).

-HM
Reply #77 from Sins Forums Top
, I do think it's a bit of a strange business move to apparently deliberately code the game to function incorrectly when launched with a rival company's program.
End of quote


Actually, its the opposite way around. They didn't bother to code it to work with steam -- rather than coding it to not work with steam.

And steams greatest weakness remains that you have to connect to the internet simply to install any boxed games you buy from valve. You can't take HL2, install it, and play it without first connecting to the internet.
Star Control: Origins
Reply #78 from Sins Forums Top
I'm not sure anyone has mentioned this, but Steam administrators can at any time for any reason disable your account. All the games you paid for with cash go poof. They also don't have to provide service. It's in the EULA, so when you buy a game from Steam, you agree to this condition. Granted, if they started randomly doing this for asinine reasons, there would be a huge community backlash. Stardock could also do this, but they can't "poof" your games because you don't have to sign on to TotalGaming.net to play. However, I don't like that possibility hanging over my head. The only times I buy from Steam now is if they offer something really cheaply (Prey for $5? That's not even fair...), if I'm too lazy to get it from the store, and if Stardock doesn't have it.

From the EULA:


9. DISCLAIMERS; LIMITATION OF LIABILITY; NO GUARANTEES

[...]
C. NO GUARANTEES.

VALVE DOES NOT GUARANTEE CONTINUOUS, ERROR-FREE, VIRUS-FREE OR SECURE OPERATION AND ACCESS TO STEAM, THE STEAM SOFTWARE, YOUR ACCOUNT AND/OR YOUR SUBSCRIPTIONS(S). "

[...]

13. TERM AND TERMINATION

Either you or Valve has the right to terminate or cancel your Account or a particular Subscription at any time. You understand and agree that the cancellation of your Account or a particular Subscription is your sole right and remedy with respect to any dispute with Valve.
End of quote


that, combined with this:

B. Charges to Your Credit Card.

ALL STEAM FEES ARE PAYABLE IN ADVANCE AND ARE NOT REFUNDABLE IN WHOLE OR IN PART.
End of quote


does not particularly make me a happy customer. In contrast to this, here's Stardock's return policy:

RETURN POLICY

Refund requests on all credit/debit card orders must be received within 90 days of the transaction. No partial or full refunds will be granted after this time. PayPal orders can only be refunded for 60 days after purchase date. We require that you utilize our technical support services prior to issuing a refund. [...]
End of quote


Granted, it's not a no-strings-attached return policy (90 days and need an RMA from tech support), but at least an option to get your money back is there.

Don't get me wrong, Steam is a great digital distribution system, but the initial bugs and having to sign on to play my games have left a sour impression. When Half-life was first moved to Steam, connectivity bugs such as dropped multiplayer games and insufficient server support made me hate digital distribution with a passion. It's gotten a lot better, but I still prefer to be able to play my games without being watched by the Valve mothership.
Reply #79 from Sins Forums Top
Actually, its the opposite way around. They didn't bother to code it to work with steam -- rather than coding it to not work with steam.
End of quote


I don't see how this is a possibility as games that came out long before Steam ever developed a chat overlay feature seem to cooperate just fine with it without any special coding.

In fact, as I just messed around with some of my older games, the only one I could find that didn't allow me to pull it up was Final Fantasy VIII. Also of note was that the game worked exactly the same launched from Steam or from the desktop. The only thing missing was the shift-tab feature.

But with Sins, you get the removal of all game text simply by using Steam to launch the game. Seems a unique situation to me, thus prompting my earlier supposition. I don't see how I'm that off with my reasoning here, but if someone from IC or SD wants to correct me, I certainly won't argue. Like I said before, I love the game and plan to buy the expansion, but I don't see any value to breaking the game because you opened it with another company's launcher.
Reply #80 from Sins Forums Top
It's because Steam doesn't set the working directory for the .exe properly. If they fixed that bug in their code, the game would launch properly through their client.  This isn't something for us to fix, nor do we have any interest in doing so even if it were.
Reply #81 from Sins Forums Top

I don't see how this is a possibility as games that came out long before Steam ever developed a chat overlay feature seem to cooperate just fine with it without any special coding.
End of quote


Simply because games can be compatible with steam without special programming, doesn't mean they will be. For example, if most people use route A (which steam can work with) and not route B (which it can't) but otherwise A and B are equal -- maybe B has some advantages to it even -- does that mean picking route B was a deliberate decision to "block" steam? No, they really couldn't have cared less, so they didn't make it work for steam.
Reply #82 from Sins Forums Top
....why do we need to sell this game though much inferior platform/system?

I use Steam too for CS:S and other games, but you know what? it sucks, and has tons of errors (you will encounter those errors once you buy non-Valve games from Steam)

I am looking forward to Impulse.
Reply #83 from Sins Forums Top
It's because Steam doesn't set the working directory for the .exe properly. If they fixed that bug in their code, the game would launch properly through their client. This isn't something for us to fix, nor do we have any interest in doing so even if it were.
End of quote


Appreciate this being addressed, Yarlen. Thanks for the answer as to what's causing the problem. Like I said before, I apologize for making an assumption that turned out to be erroneous, but the uniqueness of the event was troubling me.
Reply #84 from Sins Forums Top
I'm sure Impulse will have a few hiccups when it gets up and running to (aimed at those ranting about Steam above). These systems are complicated beasts.

It will be good having more 'viable' options in the digital download gaming world :) but Steam is currently the king. Stardock/Impulse has a lot of work to do to catch up with them.
Reply #85 from Sins Forums Top
Saying Steam has issues throughout it's life and problems with it's very approach (Audiosurf takes way longer to start due to Steam DRM) is totally different to teething problems. Do you REMEMBER Steam's teething problems? They were far, far worse than 'Impulse shows a slightly different version available' and 'archiving wasn't implemented in the open beta'. Early Steam sucked so bad it's become mythological. Even recently there have been problems, and every problem with Steam is a problem for millions of people with all their Steam games. If Impulse exploded, nobody would care, because it's not tied up with DRM. Not like Steam games aren't cracked, so it's inconvienient AND useless. :)

It amuses me that the OP complains that Sins isn't in stores so you could sell it on Steam. If only there was ... some other way ... to buy it online... That said, Stardock could certainly give their distribution vector more exposure, like making it an optional install on their products, etc. Just like Steam used HL2, you need to push out a userbase quickly: of course, stats on how many Steam users own nothing but the Valve games you MUST buy on Steam would be pretty funny.
Reply #86 from Sins Forums Top
Of course steam sucked at the start - it was trying something very new at the time. But it does not have major problems now. It functions just fine, has a large stable of games, and they are obviously making a fair bit of money with a large supporter base, many of whom are obviously buying all sorts of content (e.g. audiosurf is raking the cash).

You know you can buy valve games in a store too, so there is no 'must' in purchasing it on steam, although you do need to have it running to play online. As a game admin, steam is a godsend because it allows us to ban problem players, and helps prevent much of the griefing other FPS mp games suffer from.

The vocal steam haters amuse me, because they always have a choice if the system is that bad --> don't support it if you don't like it.

If Impulse delivers on its promises, more power to it, but let's wait and see how it all goes before getting too carried away.
Reply #87 from Sins Forums Top


You know you can buy valve games in a store too, so there is no 'must' in purchasing it on steam, although you do need to have it running to play online.
End of quote


Same difference -- you have to have steam.
Reply #88 from Sins Forums Top

Of course steam sucked at the start - it was trying something very new at the time. But it does not have major problems now. It functions just fine, has a large stable of games, and they are obviously making a fair bit of money with a large supporter base, many of whom are obviously buying all sorts of content (e.g. audiosurf is raking the cash). You know you can buy valve games in a store too, so there is no 'must' in purchasing it on steam, although you do need to have it running to play online. As a game admin, steam is a godsend because it allows us to ban problem players, and helps prevent much of the griefing other FPS mp games suffer from. The vocal steam haters amuse me, because they always have a choice if the system is that bad --> don't support it if you don't like it. If Impulse delivers on its promises, more power to it, but let's wait and see how it all goes before getting too carried away.
End of quote

You do know that Stardock Central precedes Steam by years?  More power to Valve and all, I'm a fan but Stardock's been doing digital distribution for a lot longer than Valve has.

The only difference is that until recently, Stardock wasn't pursuing major publishers to put their titles onto our network (and we still have dozens of third party titles using our infrastructure despite not trying).

I don't think anyone here has a big problem with Steam. I *like* Steam.  I use it. Every day. But that doesn't mean I want to hand our digital destiny over to them when we have something that works, has existed longer, and has millions of happy users.

Reply #89 from Sins Forums Top
Thats a good part of the point I forgot to mention...

Do I not like steam? no. I just don't see any reason to use it except for the games that come with it. SDC is, quite simply, better. And the upcoming impulse promises to improve the situation further!
Reply #90 from Sins Forums Top

You do know that Stardock Central precedes Steam by years?  More power to Valve and all, I'm a fan but Stardock's been doing digital distribution for a lot longer than Valve has.
The only difference is that until recently, Stardock wasn't pursuing major publishers to put their titles onto our network (and we still have dozens of third party titles using our infrastructure despite not trying).
I don't think anyone here has a big problem with Steam. I *like* Steam.  I use it. Every day. But that doesn't mean I want to hand our digital destiny over to them when we have something that works, has existed longer, and has millions of happy users.
End of quote


Don't forget that Steam was also designed to help control mp gaming i.e. to give players an identiy/ID so that griefing/cheating punishment could actually be effective without blanket IP range banning. It was a boon for admins :) .. sure, not 100% effective but good enough.

How will impulse handle problem players in games? Will players be identified using an Impulse key or something similar, or will that be game dependent?

Reply #91 from Sins Forums Top
I've been using steam for about 6 months now (since obtaining a decent net connection) after buying orange box, and I can't say I've had any problems with it at all. That said, I've been using it almost exclusively to play Team Fortress 2 multiplayer, so I don't share some of the gripes that some people have relating to phone-home-for-singleplayer (although, as a number of folks have pointed out, you can put steam into offline mode to disable this, so it's hardly the end of the world).

gaping_maw beats me to the excellent point of Steam's anti-cheat support. Their somewhat heavy-handed DRM makes it easier for admins to detect & ban cheaters & griefers. That said, it isn't perfect, but I think it's sadly necessary to some extent.

Regarding stardock - I had no issues whatsoever purchasing and downloading sins. However SDC doesn't exactly tickle my pickle - maybe it's a wonderful system, but I can't be bothered trying to find out because it looks pretty clunky. Anyhow, I hope stardock's new impulse system works out well.
Reply #92 from Sins Forums Top
No, competition is good. I hope Impulse becomes just as big as Steam in the digital download market so that there isn't just one big company telling me how and where to buy my games, I have alternatives.
Reply #93 from Sins Forums Top
(although, as a number of folks have pointed out, you can put steam into offline mode to disable this, so it's hardly the end of the world).
End of quote


And if you don't have an internet connection to begin with? You have to "phone home" at least once to install the game -- and my biggest gripe is that I didn't have (direct) internet access when HL2 came out!
Reply #94 from Sins Forums Top
People love Steam for some reason
End of quote


You'll probably want to get around to understanding that reason at some point if you plan on presenting any serious competition to it. :P

Reply #95 from Sins Forums Top

Don't forget that Steam was also designed to help control mp gaming i.e. to give players an identiy/ID so that griefing/cheating punishment could actually be effective without blanket IP range banning. It was a boon for admins .. sure, not 100% effective but good enough.
End of quote

How exactly does Steam help with mp gaming outside of Valve's own games? I bought Company of Heroes off of Steam. Does it do something to help with griefing that I'm not aware of?

Impulse will provide UMP (Universal Multiplayer Platform) that has Stardock, Gas Powered Games, and Ironclad (for starters) supporting so you'll be able to do match making based on not just skill level but reputation and friends lists and the like.

Reply #96 from Sins Forums Top

You'll probably want to get around to understanding that reason at some point if you plan on presenting any serious competition to it.
End of quote

Well I certainly know why people like Steam.  What Yarlen meant is that there is a fanboyism about Steam that defies rational explaination.  As a Steam user, I enjoy being able to set up a new machine and get my games down on it.  However, as has been pointed out, we've been doing this sort of thing long before Steam existed.  The only difference is that Steam went out and got third party publishers on their network a lot more aggressively than we have until now.

 

Reply #97 from Sins Forums Top
If Sins in on Steam, I will never deal with Stardock any more as I hate Steam very very much. I hate the idea to forced customer to register ONLINE in order to get a retail box game to run - like Half Life 2, Bioshock and M$ Flight Simulator X. This idea causes a lot of pain to re-install a game on an upgraded computer. If more PC game developers swtich to this kind of disgusting Steam idea, I will totally switch to purchase console games only.

Because of Half Life 2, Bioshock and M$ FSX, Steam (Valve), 2K games and M$ are already in my PC games black list. I don't care how big this ONLINE garbage is, their approach simply help me to save money - buy less.

Disgusting!
Reply #98 from Sins Forums Top
People love Steam for some reason...
End of quote

For some reason? I thought it was pretty obvious:

1) It's run by one of the industry's most respected developers
2) It has a huge selection of games, many sold at bargain prices
3) It's easy to use, and it just works

Still, glad to hear competition is on the way. That's always a good thing.
Reply #99 from Sins Forums Top

How exactly does Steam help with mp gaming outside of Valve's own games? I bought Company of Heroes off of Steam. Does it do something to help with griefing that I'm not aware of?

Impulse will provide UMP (Universal Multiplayer Platform) that has Stardock, Gas Powered Games, and Ironclad (for starters) supporting so you'll be able to do match making based on not just skill level but reputation and friends lists and the like.
End of quote


You're dead right, Steam mp system was only good for Valves games.. which are primarily FPS games.

It's great that you are setting up a system which would be good for RTS type games - hopefully taking the good things that Blizzard has done with battlenet too (e.g. it's Warcraft3 ladder matchmaking was excellent).. anything which helps stop the whole 'pulling the cable when losing' issue that plagued COH is good. I assume your system can deal with that?

We both know that RTS mp issues are a completely different kettle of fish from fps player 'management'. If you plan on selling/supporting mp FPS games on impulse, then an appropriate way to tag/identify players is still critical.

Reply #100 from Sins Forums Top
my only request is this: that the two companies developing each network/platform communicate enough to ensure that *both* platforms will play nicely with each other on the same machine today, tomorrow, and forever.

is there any active dialogue between the two companies to ensure that some new 'feature' on platform A will not disable a game purchased through platform B, for example?

and that if i happen to feel like using platform A to dload a patch for a game purchased on platform B... it would suck if platform B then decided my game is corrupt and i need to dload the patch / whole game over again or i cant play the game...?

remember that even in ww2, allied and axis diplomats talked to each other - the indirect result of which was my grandfather *not* landing onto a mustard gas filled beach on okinawa :)

(not that mustard gas would be *that* effective on a beach, with no depressions or trenches for it to gather in but... well, you get the idea lol)