DA espionage and tech trading a bit silly

from GalCiv2 Forums
I've played galciv, galciv2, and now DA. The games have definitely improved substantially over time. I've been irritated though at how the human's handed a huge advantage over the players in what the game makes visible as part of the interaction.

First, espionage. It has already been brought up. You place a spy on a planet, and as part of placing a spy you see what's on the planet. You're forced to affect production, and you get substantial knowledge you should only have after gaining higher levels of espionage. Here's my attempt at a fix:

1. Placing a spy on a planet should not force you to select a location for the spy.
2. The planet should become explored only after the spy has been there for a while.
3. You should have unused spies to be able to even know you're being spied upon. The more spies you have, the more easily you can see spies.
4. The more planets you explore, the higher your intelligence level. Gaining intelligence in a larger civilization becomes much more difficult than a smaller civilization.

As for tech trading, it doesn't make sense that you get to pick the technology you want if you don't have sufficient intelligence to know what technologies the opponent has. Instead, it makes more sense if you were to offer a technology, and the opponent gets to evaluate its worth to him/her, and then decides whether to offer anything back in return. More frustrating, but IMHO a much more realistic experience.

Any thoughts?
7,139 views 8 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Not bad ideas, but I'd also like to see ships sitting off planets gathering intel also work as spies in your scenario.

I'm not sure about tech trading though. As it stands, even allies won't trade a significant tech for several of yours of equal or higher value. If they actually offered techs of similar value to yours, then your idea might be ok.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
My point with tech trading is that it is much more compelling and sensible if both parties actually care about what they are trading. It doesn't make sense to me that I offer the computer laser for... i dunno, farming... when the computer's researching down the missile tech branch. The computer should have some strategic sense for whether the technology being offered is going to be useful. Creating an artificial imbalance in the value of the trade (well, maybe a slight imbalance still works) does not seem particularly compelling.
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Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

How do you know the AI won't switch to lasers?Or use lasers for another trade?
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The tradeing needs a "what will you give me for this" option.
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top

The tradeing needs a "what will you give me for this" option.


indeed it does. and a "what do you want for that?" option
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The AI's complete refusal to trade higher-level weapons (even when I offer them everthing I own, including my own, higher-than-theirs-level-weapon) is rather stupid.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
4. The more planets you explore, the higher your intelligence level. Gaining intelligence in a larger civilization becomes much more difficult than a smaller civilization.


I generally like your ideas about spying. But this last one isn't in accord with reality, oddly enough. If we look at analogies in real life, it's actually much harder to spy on smaller countries than on larger ones. Look at how little is known about North Korea, even by the South Koreans, but how much was known by the US about the USSR, not to mention how much the USSR knew about the US.


Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top



I generally like your ideas about spying. But this last one isn't in accord with reality, oddly enough. If we look at analogies in real life, it's actually much harder to spy on smaller countries than on larger ones. Look at how little is known about North Korea, even by the South Koreans, but how much was known by the US about the USSR, not to mention how much the USSR knew about the US.





I don't think size is as much of a factor. We know a lot about, say, Singapore and Jamaica, than we know about North Korea. I think the type of government, and the prevalent culture, are much more important factors. North Korea does not aspire for global power, leadership and influence the way USA or USSR do. (They are belligerent, but at this point I would not call them power hungry.) China a few decades ago was much less penetrable too. Other examples of relatively closed countries exist in the Persian Gulf. How much do you really know about Saudi Arabia, despite its size? Getting back to GalCiv, I think this is relatively simple to model with the espionage system. You get X spies. You can either choose to use the spies externally, or internally. If you use them externally, you leave yourself more open to spies. If you use them internally, you become a hermit civilization.