Moons, radiations storms, asteroid belts and asteroid fortresses, etc.

from Stardock Forums
I would like to start by telling the developers I really appreciate all the effort they’ve put into beta 2/ I’ve been having tremendous fun with Beta 2 so far (havn’t really had a lot of free time though) and the games seems to be progressing nicely.

One thing is still bugging me though.
Every map is basically exactly the same, you have exactly the same the gravity-well with a planet smack in the middle.
This makes the game fairly repetitive in the long run, as soon as you reach a certain level of superiority against a foe it’s just basically move in with the fleet, burn planet and rinse and repeat.

I would really like some random diversity in the tactical maps for example:
- Gravity wells in different sizes, in one system you might jump out right next to a planet in another you might be a couple of minutes away. Small gravity well systems might also be handy for fast fleet movements.
- moons, some planets might have moons (1 or more), these moons could be used to increase resources, add extra population, increase logistics or research in general make a system more desirable.
- asteroid belts, big circular things that could make travel in a system more hazardous, slower for certain ships but add extra resources.
- fluctuating gravitational fields, some ships might move fasters others would just slow down.
- Gaseous nebulae, things that block sensors and hide fleets. You might think the system is empty but there could be an entire armada waiting in that gas cloud.
- Radiation storms, smalls ships slowly receive damage in this system but large vessels can move through it without problems.
- asteroid fortresses, what if I don’t need extra metal resources but instead want to build a platform form my numerous fighter wings and death rays. Create the possibility to actually build fixed defenses capable of hurting a capital ship.
- mine fields, not in the traditional sense but think of large automated missiles that lock on to anything within a couple of million miles. Still impractical in space but any multi planet socity capable of making multi kilometer long space ships should be able to produce a factory ship capable of spewing out a few million missiles over fair percentage of a cubic light-year.


Basically anything that would differentiate the planets beyond the rock, ice, lave, earth system we have now.

Addendum
_ civilian space structures and space ships, I would like to see some more civilian space structures in the game, orbital factories, hotels, research stations, in the game. Not things that you have to build yourself but things that pop up around a sufficiently advanced planet. Maybe even have passenger liners move between systems. Not tons of them like the flying cars between planets but just a few. I would add a bit of life to an otherwise fairly sterile galaxy
21,259 views 35 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
these are great ideas! it would make the game MUCH more realistic and adds some tactical advantage

gre8 idea's, im with you for 100%
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
me too, awesome ideas!
Offworld Trading Company
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
I like the asteroid belt.
I pictured it as a zone that every ship has to travel through at sub-lightspeed. Approach it, break phase space travel, move through it, go back into phase space.
that would be the space-equivalent of a river on earth. A natural border.
Depending on how flexible the game engine is it could be possible to fight within the asteroid belt. Large ships could receive a maneuverability-penalty so the asteroid belt could be used by smart players to defeat an otherwise superior fleet.
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top
Hmm... How about making gravity well size dependent on planet size?

As an obvious point, asteroids should get smaller gravity wells than planets - they have less mass. Also, un-colonizable "gas giants" with large gravity wells might mix things up a big more. (And perhaps serve as handy pirate spawn points?)
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Having different planet sizes affect resources on that planet alone would be nice. Having a gravity well that reflects the size would be awesome. What I really want to see are moons though! Moons providing resources is a great idea.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Good ideas !

I would like to add to the idea of civilian structures and ships. What if these could be attacked by an enemy faction, the pirates or insurgents resulting in missions for the player to come to the rescue ? If rescue missions are ignored or fails the results could be stolen research, loss of income, loss of population, reduction in trade, creation of insurgents or pirates and so on. This would mean that in addition to conquering new planets and systems the player must also take care to protect and manage his present empire or it will fall apart.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top


Good ideas !

I would like to add to the idea of civilian structures and ships. What if these could be attacked by an enemy faction, the pirates or insurgents resulting in missions for the player to come to the rescue ? If rescue missions are ignored or fails the results could be stolen research, loss of income, loss of population, reduction in trade, creation of insurgents or pirates and so on. This would mean that in addition to conquering new planets and systems the player must also take care to protect and manage his present empire or it will fall apart.





nice idea indeed, and if your culture is low, then you will have more chance of planets revolting against you
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I love that idea! The concept of having moons orbiting planets, that is. You could add the ability to create a moon base (with a frickin' laser beam...you could then call it the *quote hand gesture* the death star *end quote hand gesture*... ... ... ... okay maybe not.) and you could have ships going back and forth between the moon base and the main planet!

Okay, sorry, I'll calm down now.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
and...to make the game more realistic (and confusing) don;t place the planets all in 1 line! but on different levels...it would be the ultimate game then
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Moons!!!!!!
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
I would really like some random diversity in the tactical maps for example:

'scuse me if I get a bit picky... its my way.
- Gravity wells in different sizes, in one system you might jump out right next to a planet in another you might be a couple of minutes away. Small gravity well systems might also be handy for fast fleet movements.

I could understand big gravity wells for planets and small wells for asteroids (and huge wells for stars), but I dont like to see variation within the sectors.
thats easily modded in anyhow.
- moons, some planets might have moons (1 or more), these moons could be used to increase resources, add extra population, increase logistics or research in general make a system more desirable.

suggested MANY times before, although TECHNICALLY the resource asteroids are about the size (if not significantly larger) than a normal moon, I would like to see something similar to Earth's (although its a super-rare case). I personally like the idea, even if its a binary system.
asteroid belts, big circular things that could make travel in a system more hazardous, slower for certain ships but add extra resources.

hm... isnt that the function of the asteroids (keep in mind, this is within a solar system, not a galaxy). I could see the rings playing that part, but not the asteroid belts.
like the idea, just append it to say "rings"
- fluctuating gravitational fields, some ships might move fasters others would just slow down.

hm, no.
1) that makes no physical sense...
2) that would be way too confusing and frustrating in game, not to mention how hard it would be to program
- Gaseous nebulae, things that block sensors and hide fleets. You might think the system is empty but there could be an entire armada waiting in that gas cloud.

I like the idea of a system completely obscured by dust, but the Devs have declared their intentions not to use a FoW system... sadly

although, if you could implement this as a random occurance (to allow attacks in cover) that would be cool.
- Radiation storms, smalls ships slowly receive damage in this system but large vessels can move through it without problems.

again as a random occurance this would be cool, but the damage would have to be really light and it should certainly not last long enough to do more than 1/4 or 1/3 health damage to any one ship. (would make evacuation worth it, but not entirely nescessary)
- asteroid fortresses, what if I don’t need extra metal resources but instead want to build a platform form my numerous fighter wings and death rays. Create the possibility to actually build fixed defenses capable of hurting a capital ship.

I like the idea of a "fortress system", but I think it should be saved for end game (a last-stand system) rather than something that could really break gameplay in the middle of a session.
- mine fields, not in the traditional sense but think of large automated missiles that lock on to anything within a couple of million miles. Still impractical in space but any multi planet socity capable of making multi kilometer long space ships should be able to produce a factory ship capable of spewing out a few million missiles over fair percentage of a cubic light-year.

I like, except that you would have to think a bit smaller... considering that the game plays in small gravity wells throughout a solar system (which isnt a light year wide)

do you actually have the beta? because a lot of your ideas sound cool... but would need serious tweaking to actually fit the game

keep up with the creative goodness though!
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
I really dont see the point in varying gravity wells, while yeah it makes sense that a gas giant has a bigger one than an asteroid, remember that what we call gravity well is actually just the area your ships can actually DO ANYTHING in, so making it smaller is just...silly, and the advantage of making it bigger is? more room to fly around?
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
For the fortresses, make them an upgrade that needs to be researched that needs like 10 research facilities and LOADS of cash so you would only get it if you really REALLY needed it.

Other than that i love all the ideas Please IronClad or StarDock, Comment on these !!

Even SchematicNinja agree's and he is one of the most cynical people on the forum !
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
I really dont see the point in varying gravity wells, while yeah it makes sense that a gas giant has a bigger one than an asteroid, remember that what we call gravity well is actually just the area your ships can actually DO ANYTHING in, so making it smaller is just...silly, and the advantage of making it bigger is? more room to fly around?

it has a physical manifestation: the area in which gravity is so intense that your ships cannot phasespace through. as a result it actually makes sense to make the asteroids much smaller and the planets much bigger (so its not just a cool name given to a figment of our immaginations)

and the point of it: bigger battles in bigger gravity wells, faster movement faster battles in smaller gravity wells.

you really dont want to play through a game without ANY variation, do you?
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
Great ideas - count me in as in agreement - they would certainly add a lot to the game.
I know the devs have declared some ideas non actionable, but it would be nice if they would reconsider, or provide a reasonable explanation of why they won't/can't.
I realize that in Beta 2, the code is less likely to undergo major rewrites, and this will be even more the case for Beta 3. However, if the rewritten portion of code provides a major improvement in game play, then it should be seriously considered.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
Great ideas! We have a huge list of Flair features that just keeps growing. Up to this point they were low on the priority list - our resources were devoted to basic gameplay, ships, abilities, and the fundamentals. As we move closer to release you can expect an exciting array of environmental & other features
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
Just please dont absurdly overdue nebula storms, and hazards like in SW:EaW, or ST Armada where damn near every square inch of the maps are like a freaking obstacle course. Little may go a long way in this case.

Moons, and Gas giants (with proportionately sized grav wells) are an excellent idea.
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
Lol Im not an idiot, I know that gravity wells are a real feature of bodies in space but i was refering to the gameplay mechanic If you could move outside of the gravity well, id be all for varying the size dependant on the body HOWEVER, you cant.

What youre suggesting would make it harder to have a massive fleet engagement at a dead asteroid than it would at a gas giant (becuase there i just less room you can move your ships, its allready possible to almost fill half a gravwell with ships). Whats the point? give me one good gameplay or one good irl reason this should happen?

Gravwells as they stand are currently the "maps" we fight on, theyre allready pretty damn small, so I said in terms of gameplay, not my ignorance of physics, why would you ever want to make them any smaller? Im not sure why I said there was no point in making them bigger though, ive allready asked for that in a few other threads lol

EDIT: apologies *sigh* im skim reading posts way too much. I now see what you said about the apperent advatnge of varying the wells but honestly does that not sound a little contrived to you? "oh I have to attack this asteroid now, but oh noes! the fact that I can phasejump away from the asteroid at a much closer distance from it than i can planets means I must only attack with a half my fleet!" If thats what you call variation then keep it away from me please! Id rather have variation through nice, fun gameplay mechanics than non-sensical things like that
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
@SchematicNinja:
You called the asteroid belts "rings" - am I guesssing right you imagined them planet-centered?
When I read the thread first I was rather thinking about solar-centered asteroid belts. Like the area between Mars and Jupiter (...give me a second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt ), just a bit thinner for gameplay reasons. Phase-travelling through such an asteroid belt isn't a smart thing to do, so ships would have to go through them at sub-lightspeed. The wikipedia article points out that the inclination of the belt is up to 20°, so flying 'over' it isn't much of an option.
Mining, ambushing, harassing, hiding-place for pirates, etc., such a belt would be a nice thing.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
What youre suggesting would make it harder to have a massive fleet engagement at a dead asteroid than it would at a gas giant (becuase there i just less room you can move your ships, its allready possible to almost fill half a gravwell with ships). Whats the point? give me one good gameplay or one good irl reason this should happen?

there is plenty of room in the asteroids to have battles, it just drastically changes the tactics.
Gravwells as they stand are currently the "maps" we fight on, theyre allready pretty damn small, so I said in terms of gameplay, not my ignorance of physics, why would you ever want to make them any smaller? Im not sure why I said there was no point in making them bigger though, ive allready asked for that in a few other threads lol

wait, you say we shouldnt change because tehy are too small... but we shouldnt make them bigger... why?
either way I dont agree with you, the grav wells are plenty large enough, I just believe that the planets should be slightly larger and the asteroids slightly smaller.
You called the asteroid belts "rings" - am I guesssing right you imagined them planet-centered?
When I read the thread first I was rather thinking about solar-centered asteroid belts. Like the area between Mars and Jupiter (...give me a second: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asteroid_belt ), just a bit thinner for gameplay reasons.

its why I asked you if you have the game, that role is played by asteroids. additionally the map is not "open" as you appear to concieve it.
Mining, ambushing, harassing, hiding-place for pirates, etc., such a belt would be a nice thing

this is all stuff that happens in asteroids (and they do force you to go sublight) but they are just like normal gravity wells, not a huge expanse thats open

I appreciate what you're trying to say, and it would sound fun in a game that works that system, but thats not sins.
I now see what you said about the apperent advatnge of varying the wells but honestly does that not sound a little contrived to you? "oh I have to attack this asteroid now, but oh noes! the fact that I can phasejump away from the asteroid at a much closer distance from it than i can planets means I must only attack with a half my fleet!" If thats what you call variation then keep it away from me please! Id rather have variation through nice, fun gameplay mechanics than non-sensical things like that

I think the only thing being "contrived" a bit here is your perception of the gravity well sizes, also you are assuming that I'm proposing the asteroid wells get smaller, not planets getting larger.

if you ask me the gravity wells are plenty large enough, they most certainly are not small enough to keep you from attacking with any sized force.
Reply #23 from Sins Forums Top
No, I didn't preorder the game. I stated that a couple of times and got tired of leading every of my posts here with that information. I admit though that it might not be clear for members around here since most users here seemed to have preordered. I'm sorry for any confusion I'm causing.
I am aware of dead asteroids and the lane system. I've been following Sins for quite a while, even way before the beta started.
What I like about the asteroid belt is that it's a complete circle. I would find it completely sufficient to tweak the dead-asteroid placement to resemble something similar, if that isn't the case yet.
Asteroid belts are a typical feature of a solar system, at least in common media, and current knowledge suggests that asteroid belts aren't too much of an exception (since gas giants like Jupiter aren't either). I'd like to see a representation of that in Sins. As you pointed out the game already has everything needed for that. Put a few dead asteroid in a circular fashion around a star and then draw a couple thousand little dots to form the graphical representation of a belt.
Reply #24 from Sins Forums Top
Asteroid belts are a typical feature of a solar system, at least in common media, and current knowledge suggests that asteroid belts aren't too much of an exception (since gas giants like Jupiter aren't either). I'd like to see a representation of that in Sins. As you pointed out the game already has everything needed for that. Put a few dead asteroid in a circular fashion around a star and then draw a couple thousand little dots to form the graphical representation of a belt.

the devs have declared their intention not to make planet type dependant on proximity to the star because it would create difficulty in balancing the game. and besides, the asteroids act like a sort of intermediary, glue almost, between the different planets.

then again, if you're recommending a ring of the asteroids in ADDITION to the current asteroid-ish system with some cool graphic overlay, that sounds cool to me.
Reply #25 from Sins Forums Top
then again, if you're recommending a ring of the asteroids in ADDITION to the current asteroid-ish system with some cool graphic overlay, that sounds cool to me.
Bingo.