Suggestions - Stealth?

from Sins Forums
One thing that always bothered me a little in those kind of game, is the absolute power of sensors. The only thing that matters is "range", anything within is automaticly detected.

So there is no advantage in having small fleets trying to sneak. There is no possible strategy of using asteroid belts for cover to hide from your ennemy. You are as much detectable with 30 Warshiphs with escort complement than with 1 scout fighters.

The only thing remotely close to this kind of feature is the "stealth mode" (also in-built as "cloaking device" in some games) which is only included in some special units.


Do you think that there would be any points to including some kind of range-related efficiency to the sensors, along with the stealth value of the target? (and multiple ships stacked in a fleet would have abyssmal steath value - except if they were all specificly designed stealthy ships)
26,699 views 9 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
This isn't the full faction of TEC not to mention the other 2 faction that isn't in the beta yet. They may already have cloak for all we know. As for hiding in same gravity well I think there may be no cloak. But for jumping to other gravity well you MAY maybe hide your fleet to make a surprise attack. Plus you can't see other ship jumping from other galaxy just by being around the sun at the moment until they come very close.

Just found out from gamespot interview:In particular, the Vasari's advanced manipulation of "phase space" and gravity is put to great use for stealth, misinformation, hit-and-run tactics, and all-out engagements.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
Yea, to elaborate on what Xavior said about the Vasari stealth stuff, a while back when they has some ship stats on the website, one of the abilities listed for the Vasari scout had something to do with masking phase space signatures so that the enemy couldn't see you comming. I don't know if that is still in the game or if it has taken a different form but we DO know that it is something that they have been thinking about.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
If one looks at the buffs there are some interesting names that are stealth related.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
What you meant names that are stealth related?
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
Things like: far sight, illusion, spying attack, blink and others....
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Yeah, sensor ranges within gravity wells would be great. I am a bit disappointed as well that they haven't been included in the game so far.

If they used different levels of sensors like in Homeworld 2 (sensors had different levels and ships could be set to require different levels of sensors to be seen), that would open up the possibility of having stealth ships.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
One thing that I think would be cool would be to actually have to use patrols inside a gravity well to ensure your kept up to date on enemies within that gravity well.
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
It would be nice to have a small, resonably fast and armed ship that could cloak. They would be great for hit and run attacks and my, ah, covert operations. Even so, if it can't be done for gameplay reasons (provided they are good reasons), I guess I'll live.  
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
I don't want just a cloaking device available on ships. The point of my post was about having a whole "stealth" mechanic in the game, in which "cloaking devices" would simply sky-rocket the stealth value of a said-ship.

But having a stealth mechanic would ask for highly-developped sensor-ships to prevent any sneak attack. It would allow small hit-and-run strike forces moving around the ennemy territory. It would give a purpose to have patrols (since range is a big factor, if you disperce the sensor efficiency with a proportion of the increase of the sphere surface made by your range).

I guess "detection" would have a continuous death rate probability function (Actuaries and mathematicians, hear this). (Meaning the probability of being discovered in every nano-second being u). The probability of being discovered between time 0 and T would be equal to F(T) = 1 - e^-(T*u), and the average discovered time being 1/u

Off course, u would depend on a lot of factor: I was thinking on the proportion of the sensor power / stealth value of a ship.

Stealth value of a ship (SVS) = Basic Stealth Value (BSV) * (1+Temporary Bonuses(%))

BSV : I guess it is based on ship design. Where a super capital ship have a BSV of about 3, a primitive fighter have something along 100, and a highly-advanced stealth scout have 5000

Temporary Bonuses: Cloaking device actived (400%), asteroid field cover (25%), Nebulae(50%), moving at speed (-X) (X being the % of maximum speed your ship uses)

I still wonder if the temporary bonuses should be coumpounded, or simply added in term of % (like Dungeon and Dragon does with multipliers). I like more the idea of adding the multipliers..

Not to forget, you could try to design ships as banalised cargo ships, giving it a % of chance of being mis-detected

I thougt a classical function about the Stealth Value of a fleet (SVF), it involves that the bigger number you have, the easier you are to see. However, if you disperce your fleet in many isolated ships, each one of them has their own probability function of being discovered (I'll have to mash the numbers, to check if is more profitable to have 1 group of many, or many groups of 1)

1/SVF = Summation of (1/SVS)


And the Sensor power would be a classic function based on the range between the target and the ship. So the closer you get, the easier you can see everything.
I don't remember the formulae of the surface of a sphere... anyway: SS (Surface of Sphere)

Sensor power: = Basic Sensor Power of the Ship * (1/SS)


The whole thing make it, if you keep a sensor ship close to a hidden stealth ship for quite some time, you'll always end up detecting it. It's just a question of time. (The time can range from 5 seconds to the whole game if the stealth ship gets lucky)

Please Comment about this kind of idea?