I Wish Borders Were More Meaningful

from GalCiv2 Forums
We've got all these pretty colored borders on the starmap, but they mean next to nothing. I can cross them with my war ships. I can engage purple's shipping in red's space. I can pre-position whole fleets on yellow's planets befor declaring war by attacking him. Etc....

Aside from the occational UP resolutioning that taxes starbases in other's territory, and of course, the influence victory, I really don't see any other point to the borders. It seems that the game engine doesn't register the fact that 20 large warships parked two cells aways from an alien planet doesn't represent a threat.

Here's a scenario where I think borders would be emplyed:

You've got a recalitrant neighbor who just doesn't want to be nice, or doesn't want to share his techs. So you park a fleet on you're shared border, and ask again nicely. The AI should be able to recogonize that he either complies, or he's about to get bashed. As it is now, my entire fleet could be engaged on the opposite side of the map with another race, and still be considered the same threat to the race sited in the scenario.

Also, If I cross Red's territory with war ships to get at green, Red should get REALLY pissed. And if I actually engage greens ships in reds territory, red should get REALLY REALLY pissed, and should probobly consider it an act of war against him. Perhaps another form of treaty could be "safe passage"

Another benifit of borders might be more prolific appearance of anomalies after the game has started. As it is, my flag ship is pretty much parked once the game get a few weeks old. Also, snatching an anomaly from anothers space should incure a diplomatic penalty of some sort. I've seen that come up for discussion in the UP, but otherwise, any anomaly is fair game.

Please make borders mean something more!
18,746 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I agree, the AI just doesn't seem to think that me parking my military fleet next to his starbases and planets is a problem.
Reply #2 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Agree, entirely. Would add a whole new interesting strategic wrinkle and flesh out the diplomacy a bit more.
Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Actually it does at times. I did have the AI Informing me that it didn't appreciate the military build up next to its planets and the ai also declared war on me for the same reason.
It does however not always do it and perhaps not often enough.
Reply #4 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
i always laugh when the AI bishes that i'm placing Influence Bases near his planets (and by that i mean he tells me he doesn't like it every 3 turns =P ).....but this is only AFTER he's dumped like 4 of them near my planets too =P...so i dunno.....
Reply #5 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
The AI does look at ships in its space, at least transports. I was busy kicking Drengin butt yesterday, and had a transport left over after invading the last Drengin world to galactic south. I flew it to the other front in the west corner, but it had to cross Terran space, and it ended its turn near Earth, where I also had a major fleet nearby to take out a Drengin military mining base. I had never had problems with the Terrans, but they came to me and said they knew what I was doing and weren't going to sit back and wait for me to attack them and declared on me 1st. At that point I had over 75% influence and just needed to end Drengin war to get victory. Over half the Terran worlds were under my influence so that may have had something to do with it. I've had weak races tell me they knew what I was up to when I had transports going to a minor race world, but admitted they were powerless to stop me. "While we cant stop what you are doing , know that we know what you are doing" or something like that. They bitch about influence bases too. "My daughter just got back from a party at your Influence Base 1234 in sector x,y"
Reply #6 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Really wan´t some threatning comments in the diplomacy like "Your 20 ships next to my planet does NOT please me"
I mean if AI can threat us with will, I wish we could do the same to them. Now that I think of it, none of the strategy games I have played has this option, makes you wonder.
Reply #7 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Keep wishing guy, or go play civ4 if you want "boarders"
Reply #8 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Remember, GalCiv2 does not have borders. It has areas of influence. The line simply shows which race has the strongest influence in an area. It is not a political boundary.

I like borders in CIv, but I like the way the current system works in GalCIvII.

Tony
Reply #9 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I would love the option of a "neutral zone" (StarTrek reference : a teritorry where none of the two neighbour can go in, or the war is automaticly declared from the other) between 2 races that just made peace, and are still on the verge of conflict. After all, COME ON, the Torian once tried to "sneak" 4 transports + escort toward the planet closest to their border while we were at peace. THERE WAS 2 SECTOR OF DIFFERENCE! The AI should have considered that I'd see through them, and first sent a wave of attacking ship to break my resistance.

(but it was still in the 1.0X AI, and maybe with the speed enhancement-favored strategy, the AI will put up a smarter fight)

So, in conclusion: "Some" political borders, like a no-man's land would be nice.
Reply #10 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Remember, GalCiv2 does not have borders. It has areas of influence. The line simply shows which race has the strongest influence in an area. It is not a political boundary.

I like borders in CIv, but I like the way the current system works in GalCIvII.

Tony

that makes me wonder about the UP voting on taxing star bases outside the owners influance area. if the area doesnt belong to anyone, whats the big deal?
Reply #11 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
I don't think borders themselves should stop anyone from entering 'your' space (and vice versa). After all, the 'border' lines are really not borders at all (as space is not a 2-dimensional plane), but really nothing but abstract representations of your influence and how far it reaches. As such, it is the responsibility of the empire's leader to enforce their 'borders', space, etc. with military patrols and starbases. (Like the Romulan Neutral Zone.)

That said, one thing I would like to have added to the game is a way to WARN enemy civ's that they are encroaching on what I consider my territory. (It would be nice if enemy civ's did this also.) This is one of the features I do miss from the Civ series of games. You could always warn your enemies that they were getting too close for their own good, and they often would comply to your wishes .... or declare war ... depending on their disposition toward you.
Reply #12 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
When you think about how big space really is, it makes sense not to have "ownership" of the area between stars. Perhaps, for gameplay sake, make there be lesser penalties for engaging in combat inside of your influence area (i.e., the ai perhaps not going to war immediatly).
Reply #13 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
As has been mentioned the borders are not really 'borders' but cultural influence zones, so by default there would be no reason why anyone should be forbidden from entering them.

That said, anything which cranks up the strategic options is always welcome. Perhaps there could be a UP vote on formally recognising cultural borders as sovereign territory, or an addition to diplomacy - to mutually stay out of each others cultural sphere of influence or something.
Reply #14 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
It might be good to have triple borders - one based on military strength in a sector, one based on cultural dominance, and one based on direct proximity to a colonized planet. All three concepts are important. (No offense to Canucks, but...) The US dominates Canada culturally to some extent, but it can't freely place military bases in major forested *cough* I mean metropolitan areas.
Reply #15 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
There does need to be some sort of military buffer zone, or claimed space area where opponents warships and transports aren't allowed. Or at least have autopilot fly around alien planets instead of right beside them. Sometimes the AI gets the wrong impression when I'm flying past them to attack someone else.
Reply #16 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah there needs to be some kind of "need permission" to cross borders or it's an act of war. In my lastest game I put fleets of 7 ships at every planet of the YOR (16) of them, had my transports within range of attack (12 spaces) and the AI did declare war before I attacked, BUT, he accepted peace the very SAME turn. And the next turn I slaughtered it. I even bought all the other races to attack it also. The poort YOR just got smeared and cremated within a few turns. I took the planets I wanted and let the other AI's fight over the rest of them.

Kinda sad that it was so easy to do. And it's the same with all the other races, just park fleets at their planets and/or starbases and massacre the entire races power in one turn. This on "tough" and "intelligent" AI settings the highest before advantages are use. But, I don't think any advantages are going to change the fact the AI just doesn't care where you park your ships.

This feature is what has made CIV IV great, all other CIV games the AI and you could cross borders without asking or any consequences. GalCIV II needs this feature as well.
Reply #17 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Civ IV has a round world. If you block a nation, they can go the other direction. In Gal Civ, without a wrap around map, races can get boxed in pretty easily.

Tony
Reply #18 from GalCiv2 Forums Top
Yeah there needs to be some kind of "need permission" to cross borders or it's an act of war.


Crossing borders is an act of war - borders are your planets.

Influence is not a politcal boundary. You can own planets within someone elses cultural influence..... take say Gibraltar for example. Owned by the UK but culturally dominated by Spain. It really makes perfect sense both in game terms and real terms.

If they suddenly became solid politcal borders that you couldn't cross, the game would be awful. It's space. We are talking thousands of light years.

Earth can claim all the space between here and Alpha Centauri.... but can they enforce that claim? Building a space station even right next to a planet on the map still means it is thousands of miles away. If you want to enforce your borders, you are able to - just attack everything that comes into them.

Political borders make no sense in this game.