To Frogboy or Jafo:

Hope you don't mind me trying to answer this since Jafo's off to the races and Frogboy is pretty busy I think with the GUIOlympics.

A rip is when you include part or all of another author's work in your work without proper permission and credit. Whether it is just a straight copy, edited copy or recolorized copy of something. I hope this helps If you type rip up in the searchbox, somewhere in one of the threads you'll get back, I'm sure that Jafo has probably explained what a rip is. Again, I hope you don't mind someone else trying to answer this for you
[Message Edited]

Of course I don't mind

Would you consider these rips:

http://www.ppxskins.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/57/myPAD.gif

and my skin:

http://koti.welho.com/kruohio/mypda.gif

or this one:

http://www.ppxskins.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/57/ComtrolPad2.gif

and my skin:

http://koti.welho.com/kruohio/controlpadii.png

This person first copied the skins exactly as I had them and then when I made a big issue about it with the administrators they had them removed...now he modified the images slightly and reposted them. What should I do? It seems like no matter what I do this will not end. He even posts them under the name "Luni".
[Message Edited]

Contact the admins of the site again: tmacisnbr1@ppxskins.com

Since I can't use them to try them out I can't say definitively whether or not I consider them a rip. however from the screenshot they are very close. It looks like you had an idea and the other was very much inspired by that idea. But if what you said is true about the guy posting an exact rip, and you tlaked to the admins over there, and they allowed this after removing that, then I consider those admins in bad taste. I guess the problem lies with the fact that skinning those little pc's is still infantile and there isn't a crowd of loyal users. Loyal users are probably the top reason that rips for things like window blinds and icons get delt with.

Both are very close, actually to close for comfort, sorry

Sput: I did.
kongit: I know, although my skins are very popular and I know many do use them. Interesting thing in this mess is that those rips are for a competing format from the ones I'm skinning for and the admin for that program actually admitted that they saw a peak in increased sales while the first ripped skins were up on that site (the skins that were copied pixel-for-pixel, not these new "uglied down" versions).

Looks to me like all they did was remove some of the detail you have in your screenshots.. I would think that any admin worth his salt would notice these are rips and would remove them immediately!! Good Luck Juni!

Yes they need to be taken down. Jafo is away right now for about a week (I think), but I am sure somebody with little sway could probably help you.

#9 by Sir kongit - 3/4/2004 9:13:52 AM Yes they need to be taken down. Jafo is away right now for about a week (I think), but I am sure somebody with little sway could probably help you

Actually, with copyright, the author is the one that holds the power.  An admin of a different site can't do much since they neither own the copyrighted material nor have any real say in what other sites do with it.

However, if a bunch of "concerned" people emailed about it, they may think about taking it down.

he has emailed them, at least that what he says. I was saying that someone who is known in the skinning bizness could probably exert a little more force on the site admin. but you are most likely right karmagirl.

juni, maybe you should just start annoying the hell out of the admin until he gets rid of them for good.

#5

skinning those little pc's is still infantile and

I think you mean "in it's infancy"? Otherwise it wouldn't be very flattering to the person who started this thread
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>>>>juni, maybe you should just start annoying the hell out of the admin until he gets rid of them for good.

You don't know these people
Read this thread...starting from the comment made by minimage:

http://discussion.brighthand.com/showthread.php?s=da11f1d7cbc961ccea2ab4f145faf2f4&threadid=29635&perpage=15&pagenumber=205

they´re all rips for me as they all steal images from Microsoft. in real life you would have a hard time claiming any copyrights on those in a lawsuit and maybe find yourself in a pretty uncomfortable position (when the letter from MS arrives, presenting the bill for the royalities).

in the skinning world stealing from companies is widely accepted (one of the major hypocrisies), so maybe you can convince the owner of the other site to turn them down or send a letter to their ISP and hope they don´t look to deep into it.

of course what the second ripper did is far more lame and boring than what you did, the "originals" are pretty nicely crafted. the amount of creativity involved is still a minimum.

that´s all personal opinion of course. i just prefer to see real originals. you have a few on your website as Engine for example. if that would have been ripped my comment would look totally different.

moshi: Yeah, the idea behind the myPDA skin was: I was thinking about what if MS came up with a "myPDA" concept and trying to imagine what it would look like - making it look as official and smooth as possible.

The Engine and the other skins I made (without any kind of OS inspiration) I call my "weird" skins and I use a lot of time and creativity on them. Still, these OS skins are very popular and they look very nice on the ppc.

I read that thread. these people aren't worth dealing with. My only suggestion for you is that youd do convert the ones that luni converted and do it right and then take the rest off of the net for a while. That way luni will have nothing to copy, and the ones he had already copied will be shown in their true light as inferior copies.

Even the admin at that site just kinda shrugged, and made the arguement stop (temporarily) without resolving anything.

Additionally why don't you just start skinning windowblinds again. *hint* *hint* your ppc skins do look very good.

Ok, so I come to work and browse my site...and the site that has the ripped skins. This time he took a skin I posted here on Wincustomize

https://www.wincustomize.com/skins.asp?library=14&SkinID=352

and changed his name to "Lonnie" on that site and posted another "uglified" version:

http://www.ppxskins.com/gallery/data/thumbnails/57/LaunchPad.gif

I emailed the admin yet again - no answer - no nothing. This is really giving me a headache.

Kongit: Why should I convert the skins?

I've been thinking about WindowBlinds (in fact, I used to use it all the time....then uninstalled it a few versions ago). Has it evolved a lot since then?

I think that those are more different than the last ones.

and yes windowblinds has evolved.

I have very little authority on what ppxksins.com does but I am the developer of PPX. I have tried very hard to just stay out of it and quietly reach an agreement with all parties. As someone else mentioned earlier most of this is the hypocrisy of skinning. Where do you draw the line at fairness? If a skin is a rip of a rip do you just punish the 2nd ripper or go all the way and make everyone suffer in the name of fairness. Before you know it 99% of all skins in existence would need to be removed. So of course compromises have to be made, to keep from rocking the boat too much.

I personally think the 'Luni' name was too much. Used as a way to mock and get attention. This is why I had always been a strong advocate to not give it to him but not many took my advice. The more attention he got, the more validity to his cause was made. 'Luni' has been removed from the site since as far as I can see.

The PPXSkins admin sent me an explanation of their findings and I have no reason to disagree with the assessment. http://www.ppx3k.net/JuniIssue.txt

The bottom line in all of this: was this lame, yes does 'Luni' have no talent, maybe are his skins ugly, possibly did he do anything worth punishing, no (at least without having to come down on everyone else in the name of fairness) Remember, it is a public submission website, a banning can be gotten around. In the end there would be no way to stop it completely, all you can really do is compromise. Plus, 'Luni' argued his case as much as Juni did.

With every argument this 'Luni' character would answer. First he simply cut and pasted Juni's skins, those skins were removed. So he answered again by just recreating all the images himself. Then the argument shifted to his name, he simply changed it. My position has always been without argument or attention, 'Luni' or 'Lonnie' doesn't exist. He would fade away because he no longer would have purpose, he would have to go do something else.

But if Michael is in no way affiliated with PPXskins.com, how was he able to remove one of the ripped skins? He never has an answer for this. And referring to the text: In what dreamworld are you in, to think that there is an understanding that any graphics posted on the web is ok to copy and redistribute without the author's permission.

Basically, the text can be translated as: he's in Europe, we're in the US, he said he can't take us to court, so what we're doing is legal and ethical.

Riiiiiight.

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I didn't come here to get emotional with you. I completely understand how something like this can stir emotions but it doesn't solve anything.

No one ever asked how I was able to remove the one UI. Frankly it was no one's business but if you must know I pitched a bitch. I got down irrate about it and made threats but I can't do that every time. That was a one shot deal.

"In what dreamworld are you in, to think that there is an understanding that any graphics posted on the web is ok to copy and redistribute without the author's permission."

This is what I mean by rocking the boat. You just devalued any skin that Juni has done where he found images on the web. Don't you see, any argument leads to the same path and outcome. So compromises have to be made or else everyone suffers.

So whatever's said, you just twist it around to wear it matches your own ends. You just want to fight. You have to be the winner, even if there's no winning this one. Yes, I devalued Juni's skins...sure, right. I'm sorry if you're not gonna convince me that PPX and PPXskins are in no way related. It's linked from your site, it has skins for your program, you can in fact remove skins from it yourself. No intellectual debate you bring here is going to convince me that you're right. This hasn't been handled ethically and no empty words will change that. End of debate, now please either remove the skins or leave us alone.

"No intellectual debate you bring here is going to convince me that you're right."

I didn't expect otherwise. This has always been irrational and emotional. It isn't about winning anything, it is about compromise. For me to win and me alone that would mean PPXSkins.com removes all skins that Juni has a problem with and Juni s off the face of the earth but I am realistic and I am willing to compromise.

I can say all the same things, live with the skins being there or leave me alone. After all, I am just here to try to find a resolve to a thread that already exists. Juni himself made me get involved in this. My relationship to PPXSkins.com would be akin to Juni's relationship to Snoopsoft, with the difference being I nor PPXSkins.com have dragged them into this, it would be silly and irrational.

We have left you alone. In fact, we never bothered you at all, keeping all comments to Juni's site. Juni contacted you once because he thought it was your site, and got abuse in return. That was by email. Whatever has been said on Brighthand or PPCthoughts has been said by others. They have rights to their opinions. Now I say it again, we have left you alone, now leave us alone. Please.

Oh my god, you are relentless. What more do you want? What is your venue here? By your own claims you are not affiliated with ppxskins.com in any way so why do you keep defending them? Can't you just leave me alone?