Idea help for path mod I've been working on.

from Elemental Forums

So the short of it is that after .981 I've been modding here and there.  Mucking around adding a couple spells, new weapons, heroes.  I had previously worked on some custom factions like for a D&D type conversion mod.  But not totally sold on the idea.  Recently I decided to expand on the abilities.  Specifically the "Path of the x " type abilities.  What went from proof on concept, to crikeys I need to think about where I want to take this.  Basically at level 8 you may be presented with 1 or more new paths (I was thinking Advanced Classes from D&D but it's more along the lines of Jobs from FF/FFT ). 

So far I have:

*Note: For giggles right now the advanced class gives same bonuses as the basic until fleshed out better

Warrior - Can choose Knight or Samurai (Samurai is about being a swordsman.  The best swordsman. )  Not sure where to take Knight.  Maybe 2hand user designed to wreck as much havoc as they can into armored targets.  Also thinking of a Valkyrie type path (think Ogre Tactics ) 

Defender - Has Paladin.  Maybe a Bodyguard job also - more focused on skills rather than the paladin who gains access to some spells.

Assassin - Ninja and Ghost (not sure what to call it )  was thinking of making one like a single target or champion killer.  While the other would have some AoE designed to hamper / poison the enemy. 

Mage - White, Black, and Red, thinking about Time as well (Summoner too hard for what I would do with it)  so far.  Thinking of making improved healing type spells for white. Plus some advanced dispel or ESUNA type spell that would remove injury.  Black would get an improved "ga" type spell based on what spell book he have up to 3rd.  (Fireaga for having Fire3, Blizzaga for water3, etc. Plan on making some for air and earth as well ).  Red not sure what to give them, they did both backup damage and heal. so maybe a buff or two just for them.  I tried to reign in the extra gravy to 30% total.  (ie White gets -20% mana reduction and 10% dmg improvement, Black is the opposite, and Red is 15% for both ).  Thinking of giving time access to some mass haste/slow spells that would have a duration. 

Governor - Prime Minister, Seneschal, and Governor General paths.  PM would provide bonus to research (a new line that would be stackable with Loremaster ) While Seneschal not as much, but more even bonuses to gold as well.  Governor General who would focus his time/skills on units.  Thinking PM would get +2 Growth, +3 for Seneschal, and +1 for Gov General. 

Archer [New Lvl 4] Focus on Ranged.  Also have acess to accuracy and precision.  Make a version of lethal work for ranged. 

  Advanced jobs would be Ranger and Arcane Archer.  Ranger thinking that would focus on being the best marksman/bow user without resorting to magic.  While Arcane Archer ( yeah pulling from D&D here )  would enchant his arrows with a bonus to hit and damage and/or add elemental type damage too. 

 Geomancer [New Lvl 4 ]  Earlier access to terraform type spells, Access to Shard Changing Spells.  All this at the cost of forego-ing other paths.  May look at giving them some buffs based on land if possible. No intention to have advanced career path at this point.

 Blue Mage [New Lvl 4]   Blue Mages typically gained skills or spell that resembles

 

Other thoughts:

* Also looking at making some of the usual FF type spells. 

* Not sure if I wanna go there with Flare, Meteor, or Holy.

 

Any and all comments welcome.  I hope I can make this useful for others too.  Thank you for your time.

EDIT: 10/15/12 - Added in Geomancer and Blue Mage to the to-do list.

18,973 views 32 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Concerning the 6 choices is max. I was able to add multiple paths in addition to the default ones. A scroll arrow appears on the side once you create more paths than can be displayed in the window. So, unless something has changed VERY recently, you should be able to have as many paths as you like.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

Oh.. Well that's good to know.  And no, I don't know for a fact,  just thought it wouldn't show up or something.  Now I'll just make Blue Mage on its own then.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

That is pretty much how I shaped my path mod, except I relied much more on Baldur's Gate than D&D. The mechanics translate over quite nicely, whereas D&D has too many abilities we just can't do with the current modding functions. Looking forward to seeing a beta!

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

A Slayers-style magic mod would be an interesting variant (White/Shamanistic/Black magic)

 

 

 

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Since we're sharing  :grin:

 

Here is how I am planning to do my system:

 

 

At Second level you choose from the following:



Fighter

Mage

Rogue

Healer

 

These base classes open certain abilities only available to the base class.

 

Then at a later level (undecided), you choose from dozens of other classes which have certain base class restrictions, racial restrictions, sometimes gender restrictions, etc etc.

 

For example:

 

You could have a Fighter Barbarian, or a Rogue Barbarian, but not a Mage Barbarian. You can have a female Mage Witch, but not a male Mage Witch etc.

 

In addition to the traits available from your base and specialized class, traits are unlocked according to your faction and race type as well. Finally, you will be able to picj up traits from quests, sort of like the way you could pick up abilities in HOMM from visiting sites. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Before you code dozens of classes, you might want to think about how you could make this mod compatible with other mods. Specifying restrictions based on race or faction can get messy. Gender is a great idea though. How are you going to handle cross-classes? Having too many traits available at once makes leveling too random, so that a character you want as a Mage-Fighter, will never get the chance to choose that. The best solution seems to be to allow all possible traits to show up on leveling and just make sure the player knows to scroll down. But then you can't have rarity of traits. 

I wanted to go for full class crossing, but eventually noticed that either every trait had to have the same worth or people are just going to cross-class for the extra power. Since I wanted each new class to offer some new power, I decided to make cross-classing a choice at higher levels, but with new paths that combine the current one with something from the other choices. So for an arcane archer, you could have this option branch off from path of the archer at a high level. If you stick to making it easy to cross-class, you might think about adding in a penalty that unlocks when you cross classes, like D&D has. That would take some extra work, but probably be necessary. 

Reply #7 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 7
Before you code dozens of classes, you might want to think about how you could make this mod compatible with other mods. Specifying restrictions based on race or faction can get messy. Gender is a great idea though. How are you going to handle cross-classes? Having too many traits available at once makes leveling too random, so that a character you want as a Mage-Fighter, will never get the chance to choose that. The best solution seems to be to allow all possible traits to show up on leveling and just make sure the player knows to scroll down. But then you can't have rarity of traits. 

I wanted to go for full class crossing, but eventually noticed that either every trait had to have the same worth or people are just going to cross-class for the extra power. Since I wanted each new class to offer some new power, I decided to make cross-classing a choice at higher levels, but with new paths that combine the current one with something from the other choices. So for an arcane archer, you could have this option branch off from path of the archer at a high level. If you stick to making it easy to cross-class, you might think about adding in a penalty that unlocks when you cross classes, like D&D has. That would take some extra work, but probably be necessary. 
End of seanw3's quote

 

I think you're misunderstanding how I am doing it.

 

At level 2 you pick between fighter, mage, rogue or healer. There is no crossing those base classes.  You can't have a mage-fighter. You could have a Mage -> Wizard, Mage -> Bard etc. You only get to pick one base class, and one promotion class. Also, you can't have more than one pomotion class. So no Fighter/Barbarian/Warriors etc. 

The only things I will release from this mod, probably most mods I do, will be any custom graphics or other assets that will be free to use in other mods. 

I'll share code to answer "How do I do this?" questions, but really I'll probably never have a releasable balanced mod that will integrate with anything other than it's own components. 

 

 

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

I assumed that you would be making a mod for the public. If not, it only needs to be compatible with your game, which is fine. Still, I hope that those who have the knowledge and work ethic to mod the game will tend towards adding to a pool of content that we can all benefit from. That is what is going to keep the game alive. Imagine if Hf never let us play Stormworld, how much darker would the world be?

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 9
I assumed that you would be making a mod for the public. If not, it only needs to be compatible with your game, which is fine. Still, I hope that those who have the knowledge and work ethic to mod the game will tend towards adding to a pool of content that we can all benefit from. That is what is going to keep the game alive. Imagine if Hf never let us play Stormworld, how much darker would the world be?
End of seanw3's quote

 

Da fuq?

 

I am going to share any assets I create, and any code that people request, specifically if I figure out how to do something that someone else wants to do. I am not hording anything. 

I won't be releasing my mods as mods to integrate with your mods or anyone elses, not because I am selfish, but because my mods will probably never be done, never be polished and will never be balanced for the general public. Sometimes people can mod for different reasons, and that does not make them bad people that are making the world a darker place.

 

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Sorry, I get a little obsessive when it comes to modding. I meant no offense. 

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 11
Sorry, I get a little obsessive when it comes to modding. I meant no offense. 
End of seanw3's quote

 

No problem. Please know that I intend to help the modding community as much as I can. But, I have no illusions that the unwieldy beast I intend to birth would ever be something that someone else would want to play. If it did turn out to be, I would gladly release it.

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

   So far to date as I code this I have the latest Stormworld installed (including reliquary, factions, rivermod, everything ).    Which to say since as of now, my changes only affect choices at level ups it is completely compatible (So far.  Famous last words.  Lol  )  Anyways, I find it fascinating that HF has restricted races that there's one choice they are restricted from having.  Which means they also won't be able to pick or benefit from that advanced path/job either. 

   Also I am notorious for making things unbalanced and OP thus far when it comes to modding.  I would be seeking and loving feedback and inputs in regards to how things are/ how they can be improved.  The goal here is not to unbalance everything a  but really the intended goal is to have more choices and have the player feel like they have a real say on how the champion grows before them.   And try to keep the balance as much as possible. 

I could very well make it modular. So that if you didn't want the additional spells added, you could just install the advanced jobs folder.  I would like to add in my own flavoring of items at some point also.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

@jshores: SB vet?

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting cardinaldirection, reply 14
@jshores: SB vet?
End of cardinaldirection's quote

 

Yup :). 

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

;)

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Edited OP with Geomancer and Blue Mage.  I guess I have a lot in my plate for new jobs/classes.  I'd really be looking for ideas on spells and abilities for each job if people care to comment.  Feel free to say what you'd like to see me add-in as well.  It's one thing for me to like it, but another for others to like it and use it and/or not destroy any hope of balance. Also since it's not mentioned, I think - I thought Summoner was too OP the way it is presented with Eidolons.  I may look at taking on some enhancements to summoning overall. Who knows I may look at tackling Summoner once everything else is done..

It feels like the future is wide open for modding.  Only limit so far has been creativity. 

 

 

Reply #17 from Elemental Forums Top

Give you ideas for spells? I am watching this thread to steal all of yours.  ^_^

 

Some of the cooler stuff I did was your basic Hold and Charm spells from D&D. Also made some Bless and Doom ones for my clerics. Really, looking at a D&D manual is better than anything I could come up with. But if you want to know how to implement something code wise, I am pretty good at that. 

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 18
Give you ideas for spells? I am watching this thread to steal all of yours.
End of seanw3's quote

Ha ha ok.  I'll take that as flattery.  I could have went the route of all D&D, but I thought others who had some real art experience would do better and started off with something else.  That's how I got started on the paths.  It's just awesome how you can easily twist the wraiths into a custom drow faction (hint hint.  lol )  Anyways I was thinking of one point starting with Neverwinter, Port LLast, IWD/Ten Towns, Mithril Hall, Waterdeep as some custom factions.  I went so far as to start gathering logos to use for crests, but that's as far as I went with it.   Anyways, I may research FF a bit more and make custom factions and make it a true overhaul at some point. I was totally looking to see if some one was into Dragonlance as well (was at least 3 or 4 different ones of those announced when  the first game releaesed.  )

Code wise, I am just getting used to the beginner side of the pool.  Having dipped my toes in and now getting my ankles wet.   :grin:

I appreciate the offer, but so far so good. 

 

 

Reply #19 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting seanw3, reply 7
Before you code dozens of classes, you might want to think about how you could make this mod compatible with other mods. Specifying restrictions based on race or faction can get messy. Gender is a great idea though. How are you going to handle cross-classes? Having too many traits available at once makes leveling too random, so that a character you want as a Mage-Fighter, will never get the chance to choose that. The best solution seems to be to allow all possible traits to show up on leveling and just make sure the player knows to scroll down. But then you can't have rarity of traits. 

I wanted to go for full class crossing, but eventually noticed that either every trait had to have the same worth or people are just going to cross-class for the extra power. Since I wanted each new class to offer some new power, I decided to make cross-classing a choice at higher levels, but with new paths that combine the current one with something from the other choices. So for an arcane archer, you could have this option branch off from path of the archer at a high level. If you stick to making it easy to cross-class, you might think about adding in a penalty that unlocks when you cross classes, like D&D has. That would take some extra work, but probably be necessary. 
End of seanw3's quote

I don't think I personally gave this a response, while Jshores gave his own.   How am I handling cross classing?  I am not, currently.  Choice at Level 4, seals off chance for other base classes.  Promotion/Advanced class does the same I believe.  I went this way basically due to not knowing how to cross class or even allow that.  I already thought levelling was too random.  Specialization allows for a champion to decide not just whether aggressive or defensive (warrior vs. defender )  but how they go about that (like Samurai vs Knight or Paladin vs Bodyguard ). 

If you could tell me how to open up the possibility of cross class, I can think about implementing it and suitable penalties. 

Reply #20 from Elemental Forums Top

The prereqs allow us to specify that if a unit has one trait, he can't get another. That can be used to prevent cross-classing. The cool thing is that you can make a later path give you some of the stuff from two areas of specialization. For instance, my spellsword path branches off of Path of the Arcanist (Mage). It gives you access to some of the basic fighter abilities and adds elemental damage to all attacks. That is one way to cross-class. 

Another way to do it would be to allow any early path to coincide, like the vanilla game does. Then increase the number of traits your have to choose from at levelup to 100. That way you will always see every possible trait your character has unlocked. You can even mod the UI to have a much larger list for less scrolling. Then you could put in a penalty for choosing to cross-class, like we see in D&D. Basically you would have a trait that unlocks once a unit has the two prereq traits. For example, having Path of the Mage and Assassin could unlock a trait that reduces the spell power bonus and critical damage. So you pay a high price for variety, but now can combine two fields. I don't know many hardcore RPG players that don't cross-class. It has massive appeal for replayability. The trick is to balance those combinations so you don't end up with a situation like BG2's Berserker-Cleric that can solo the whole game.

I think this is the most interesting aspect of modding as it is not very well fleshed out in the vanilla. Anyone given my path mod a spin? Even just looking at the xml can be very informative.

Reply #21 from Elemental Forums Top

I'm thinking about it.  It probably would result in some serious min-maxing if you could take a second class.

Where is your path mod? I found thread for balance mod and goetia.  Is it in one of those or is it seperate ?

Reply #22 from Elemental Forums Top

It's in the Elemental Balance Mod. Download and look in the CoreAbilities file at the top. Everything is organized and most of it has a description. The abilities can be found in the CoreSpells file at the very bottom. 

When the game goes gold I am going to cut up my balance mod and serve each feature separately. That could take some time though, since my mod is miles apart from the current balance.

Reply #23 from Elemental Forums Top

Ok hard question #1 - Would it be possible to have a building unlock if a champion picks a certain ability.  (Governor General) Let's call the ability  "field training" and the building "Boot Camp"  or "NCO Academy".  I know I can make a building using say the adventurer's guild as a model/template - change the internal name.  I could then alter the xp gaining to taste.  Then leave the 1/ faction in place so every city can't have one.  Is this possible? 

 

Reply #24 from Elemental Forums Top

Easier question, when content-wise.  Should I make my own thread and allow others to check it out?   10% done 20%?  or at least 50%?   Currently at < 5% 

So time to get cracking on the mod. 

Reply #25 from Elemental Forums Top

hard question #1

Yes. Just use a prereq for the building that requires an abilitybonusoption. Make that ability the one the unit gets.


easy question #1

The proper way to make a mod thread is to add [eWIP] to the title and designate the name of your mod. That stands for Work In Progress. That way users know which mods are finished. You might also have a beta near 1.0 to get some feedback on balance.