Further evidence that Orkulus Rex needs a major nerf

Replay where I nearly effortlessly render a much more experienced player irrelevant, then save a teammate while simultaneously enabling a push on the other front:  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/73603960/OPOrKy.recordreb

All because the host decided not to ban VR.

Frankly, increasing the damage debuff's strength and duration would not have changed the outcome of this game.  Subcapital enemies were wiped so quickly that even a 75% damage loss would still see them getting destroyed without contributing much (here I'm talking about when the jumping Orky first becomes available).  And perhaps more importantly, a damage debuff wouldn't affect strikecraft being launched from the Orkulus.  Meanwhile, the endgame Orkulus would still have 25K HP, 35 armor, and the ability to freely move around, be it to pursue a fleeing fleet, quickly continue an assault in the next gravwell, or retreat for repairs.

Making SB mobilization a second upgrade for Phase Stablizer Arrays, and only allowing travel between phase stabilizer nodes have both been proposed as balancing factors.  Given where Orkulus Rex is now, a reasonable step would be to include both requirements - even on the off-chance it ends up being an overnerf, VR would still have Armor Restoration, Shared Shield Tech, Advanced NME Warheads, the Kultorask, and all their other goodies to fall back on.

63,557 views 37 replies
Reply #1 Top

BUMP

 

for the Devs.

Reply #2 Top

Making SB mobilization a second upgrade for Phase Stablizer Arrays, and only allowing travel between phase stabilizer nodes have both been proposed as balancing factors.  Given where Orkulus Rex is now, a reasonable step would be to include both requirements - even on the off-chance it ends up being an overnerf, VR would still have Armor Restoration, Shared Shield Tech, Advanced NME Warheads, the Kultorask, and all their other goodies to fall back on.
End of quote

Yet you ommitted a significant balance factor for this issue.  Its the sheer amount of these that a player can have that is the issue and you can clearly see this in your replay.

Having the orkulus movement upgrade require 100+ logistics slots and 1 capital ship crew would go a long way in balancing it.

You don't realize that the other proposed nerfs to the VR starbase jumping is still going to be really OP unless you have it require high amounts of logistics.

The game is designed around a simple principle, things that can attack require logistics slots.  Things that can defend don't.  The only game design proposal that prevents massive exploitation is the one that I have presented here, and other places.  

Reply #3 Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 2

Making SB mobilization a second upgrade for Phase Stablizer Arrays, and only allowing travel between phase stabilizer nodes have both been proposed as balancing factors.  Given where Orkulus Rex is now, a reasonable step would be to include both requirements - even on the off-chance it ends up being an overnerf, VR would still have Armor Restoration, Shared Shield Tech, Advanced NME Warheads, the Kultorask, and all their other goodies to fall back on.

Yet you ommitted a significant balance factor for this issue.  Its the sheer amount of these that a player can have that is the issue and you can clearly see this in your replay.

Having the orkulus movement upgrade require 100+ logistics slots and 1 capital ship crew would go a long way in balancing it.

You don't realize that the other proposed nerfs to the VR starbase jumping is still going to be really OP unless you have it require high amounts of logistics.

The game is designed around a simple principle, things that can attack require logistics slots.  Things that can defend don't.  The only game design proposal that prevents massive exploitation is the one that I have presented here, and other places.  
End of sareth01's quote

 

If Orkulus was made unable to jump to gravwell not containing phase stabiliser node, then you should not consider it to be a thing, that can attack. Therefore going with your logic, there is no need for it to require logistics slots. 

Not that i disagree with such solution. The exact number (100+?) needs however to be chosen carefully, so the whole jumping Orky thing is not completely moved from the "advantage" to the "alternative" category.

 

Reply #4 Top

Jumping orky will always be viable because it greatly increases attack capability.  Its cost won't be prohibitive following this suggestion.

If Orkulus was made unable to jump to gravwell not containing phase stabiliser node, then you should not consider it to be a thing, that can attack. Therefore going with your logic, there is no need for it to require logistics slots.
End of quote

I'd still have it require logistics slots to prevent abusive spam of these.  ONE is strong, more than one is SUPER STRONG. 

Either way, its going to be OP as long as other starbases can't move.

Reply #5 Top

I'm assuming by logistic slots, you mean command/ capital ship crew?

Reply #6 Top

Quoting Senza32, reply 6
I'm assuming by logistic slots, you mean command/ capital ship crew?
End of Senza32's quote

I think he means fleet supply.

Reply #7 Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 7

Quoting Senza32, reply 6I'm assuming by logistic slots, you mean command/ capital ship crew?

I think he means fleet supply.
End of GoaFan77's quote

I think he means bananas. 

Reply #8 Top

I think he means bananas.
End of quote

100+ logistics and 1 capital ship crew actually.

In this way the spam is much more limited.

Even so, I don't think this will be enough to balance it out, hence the other ideas i've stated in other threads that should all be cumulative.

Reply #9 Top

I think you're confused.  If an Orkulus takes 100 logistics no planet will ever be able to build one since even desert worlds max out at 36.

 

Reply #10 Top

Unless he is talking about Civilian Infrastructure Bananas, in which case it would be quite possible.

Reply #11 Top

That'd be pretty legit if it took up 100 supply and 1 capital ship crew with a SB upgrade.  That would allow them to be used for defense without using slots but you wanted to go on the offensive it would have to use supply slots/crew.

The upgrade should take 4-500 seconds since late game 5k+ credits is meaningless anyway.  If it was a 100 second upgrade you could still keep poppin' 'em in - lose one, upgrade another.  Seems like 4-500 seconds would be long enough for most battles to be decided, preventing multiple SB from entering one fight.

Still a fully upgraded moving SB is a lot more powerful than 2 lvl 10 capital ships.  Maybe it should suck up more supply.

Reply #12 Top

Additional nerfing is happening.  We'll see if more is needed once the next update goes out.

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Reply #13 Top

Quoting Yarlen, reply 13
Additional nerfing is happening.  We'll see if more is needed once the next update goes out.
End of Yarlen's quote

Good to see you're listening.  Thanks!

Reply #14 Top

Quoting Yarlen, reply 13
Additional nerfing is happening.  We'll see if more is needed once the next update goes out.
End of Yarlen's quote

Good to know, thanks yarlen!

Quoting SpardaSon21, reply 10
I think you're confused.  If an Orkulus takes 100 logistics no planet will ever be able to build one since even desert worlds max out at 36.

 
End of SpardaSon21's quote

Cute, you know exactly what I mean, but i'll bite.

Logistics is the actual military term for fleet supply.

Sins uses the term "fleet supply", yet logistics is the actual term that is used in the military to plan supply.  In sins logistics is simulated as simple upgrade, realistically logistics is the main component of planning an successful war, yet this is very difficult to make fun and streamlined in a game like sins.  So I use logistics, you would use "fleet supply"

I've done a few years in the military myself and my word preference isn't going to be changing anytime soon.

Reply #15 Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 15
I've done a few years in the military myself and my word preference isn't going to be changing anytime soon.
End of sareth01's quote

Unless you want someone to actually understand what you mean.

Reply #16 Top

Regardless of how well understood his term "logistics" was in this thread it seems like a legit idea.

Reply #17 Top

I would agree, too, that phase jumping Orkies should be an upgrade to the Phase Stabilizer ability (perhaps even add in a second level of Phase Stabilizer then Phase jumping), and then also restrict its phase jumps to phase stabilized areas (via phase nodes, Kostura cannon, etc).  And having the the upgrade to phase jump cost supply/cap points may also be viable.

If another nerf is already in the works, I wonder what it is they're doing?  Hopefully they don't nerf it so much it can't even be used for defense, or makes it so no one would ever want to jump one in the first place....

Reply #18 Top

Quoting sareth01, reply 15
I've done a few years in the military myself and my word preference isn't going to be changing anytime soon.
End of sareth01's quote

I totally understand, but keep in mind the exact phrase "Logistic slots" is a property of planets that determines how many civilian structures you can build. Just don't use "slots" and I think it will be less confusing. Just logistics or logistics supply.

Reply #19 Top

Goa...don't feed the troll....

Reply #20 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20
Goa...don't feed the troll....
End of Seleuceia's quote

 

You would starve then :(

Reply #21 Top

Dammit....you're right....

Reply #22 Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 22
Dammit....you're right....
End of Seleuceia's quote

Catch-22 baby. Can't beat that. :P

Reply #23 Top

Bazinga!

Reply #24 Top

I totally understand, but keep in mind the exact phrase "Logistic slots" is a property of planets that determines how many civilian structures you can build. Just don't use "slots" and I think it will be less confusing. Just logistics or logistics supply.
End of quote

Oh I get the miscommunication flag you're waving.

Goa...don't feed the troll....
End of quote

Sel's just going to wave a troll flag around my name as much as possible because he's jealous and wants to be like me.

 

Reply #25 Top

:troll: