6 player CPU FFA (cruel), need advice

things aren't looking so good!..

from Sins Forums

I'm 44 minutes into a 'random medium/large' 6 player FFA match with 5 cruel computers, playing as Vasari, and using the Distant Stars mod.

As of now I have arguably the best economy out of all 6 players; 30 creds/sec, 6 metal/sec, 6 crystal/sec (6 planets; Terran, Huge asteroid, Ice, Desertx2, and Volcanic).


However, I was only able to upgrade my fleet capacity to tier 2 just recently, to 550, while most other players have been 1 tier above me for awhile, 2 tiers above me in capital ships, and overall have much stronger fleets from what my scouts have seen so far.  All my fleet consists of atm is 22 Assailants, 1 Devestator, and 1 Evacuator.  I've been primarily doing economic research, and have 3 imperial labs and 3 weapons labs so far, and all I've researched from my weapons labs is assailants, and carriers.  I picked up things to try and keep an economic edge by researching the following:

improved salvaging 2/2

resource sublimation 2/4

artificial longevity 2/4

full terran lockdown 4/4

Tropic Occupation

Hostile Occupatin

Subzero Biology 2/4

Enslaved Labor 4/4

One of my neighboring opponents has already researched Kodiak Heavy Cruisers and actually has quite a few of them up already, and I probably wouldn't stand much of a chance against attacking him at all, but his home planet is right next to my volcanic planet where my fleet is currently stationed at.  I was about to go over and take an unoccupied Ice Planet and gain a 7th planet, but I've been constantly worried about what to do about my situation with the terrans, as they seem to pose the biggest threat, and have forced me into a defensive stance it seems.  If I split up my fleet at all I won't stand a chance, and its arguable if I even stand a chance at all to begin with using my entire fleet against his.  This is leaving almost everywhere else extremely vulnerable to attack, but I've just been hoping that I'm not attacked on a different front and so far I haven't.  I've been so busy with my own problems so I haven't been able to do any missions for anyone either, so diplomacy may be extremely difficult for me at this point.

Based on what information I've provided so far, does anyone have any ideas what I could have done different, or better to this point?  Anything I shouldn't have researched or built?  Or is there much more to this than I think in regards to figuring out how to gain the advantage here and in future games?  Here's a screencap of the current situation for what its worth (the intel on the neighboring Terran planet is a little old; I believe he has about 8 or more Kodiak Heavy Cruisers now).  Thanks in advance for any of your advice.

 

11,738 views 3 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

Any difficulty level above "normal" cheats.  Against the unfair difficulty and higher, this is very noticable.  Even though you have the best economy, the AI's are still able to field a bigger and better fleet.

I can't speak too much for the mods, but I can say that you're probably leaning too heavily on civic technology.  Your empire of six planets is respectable, but not large enough for those techs to really pay off.  You'd probably be better off directly investing that money in your military power and using it to capture additional planets.

Secondly, you need to scout more.  The whole map should have been completely scouted by the 30-minute mark.  This is particularly important for Vasari since they can capture extractors in uncolonizable gravity wells with their scouts.  This is basically free money you're passing up by not sending your scouts out to these locations.

Finally, in a free-for-all scenario you need to split your fleet into multiple groups to protect your flanks.  Remember, your opponents also have enemies on their flanks, so all you need to do is stay on the defensive when outnumbered, and then strike when the enemy is vulnerable.  Opponents who try to keep one powerful "stack of doom" as the AI does tend to get overwhelmed when fighting on multiple fronts so you'll eventually get an opportunity.  Although phase stabilizers can be a good way to mobilize one big fleet to defend your entire empire, they are expensive and more useful for larger empires.

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Yeah, about the scouting thing; I've actually built more scouts this campaign than I had ever done before, but this is also my first time playing Entrenchment /w Distant Stars mod on this difficulty using Vasari.  I don't know if its Entrenchment, or the mod that made them smarter, but all of my opponents are constantly contesting me for extractors in the uncolonizable gravity wells, which I've never seen them do before.  Also, it seems like my scouts are having a much more difficult time staying alive than ever before.  Once I set them on auto-explore, the majority of them were getting killed within 10 minutes, or 5-6 phase jumps, after creating them.  Should I be manually controlling them the entire time?  I was at least micro'ing them in uncolonizable wells and making them stay away from combat vessels long enough to restore enough anti-matter to capture all the extractors, and then send them back on auto-scouting once they were finished.  But a few minutes later they'd typically just take them for themselves with a colony frigate.

 

And about the civic technologies; should I only research how to capture ice/volcanic planets?  That is generally the first thing I research always, since I need to be able to colonize them early on before the AI does, and then I research assilants either after or during that process.  After that point, I am not really sure what type of research I should do, and usually just upgrade my planets population cap if its maxed out already.  But I heard that the most important ones to get in the civic tree were Scavenging, and Enslaved labor for the Vasari in the early game.  Is this true, or only true in certain scenarios?

Sins of a Solar Empire II
Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

I don't know if its Entrenchment, or the mod that made them smarter
End of quote

It's Entrenchment, though I wouldn't put it past the DS guys to further improve upon that behaviour.  You'll need to keep your scouts in play.  If the enemy shows up in force to secure the neutrals, let them have it.  You can always come back in five minutes once they've left.  In any case, this still doesn't excuse not having the map explored.

 

Once I set them on auto-explore, the majority of them were getting killed within 10 minutes, or 5-6 phase jumps, after creating them.
End of quote

On larger maps like this, auto-explore on its own does not work.  The auto-explore AI has certain inefficient behaviour quirks that can be corrected with at least some manual scouting.  These quirks unfortunately get worse on larger maps, so on one of this size you cannot rely on auto-explore for the more distant areas in the solar system.

 

But a few minutes later they'd typically just take them for themselves with a colony frigate.
End of quote

You should probably have a pack of scouts (4-6) roaming about.  This is enough scouts that they can gang up and kill an unguarded colony frigate.  You can always come back later when the enemy gets around to retaking the extractors.  It's an ongoing thing, but Vasari need to keep coming back and hounding the enemy.

 

should I only research how to capture ice/volcanic planets
End of quote

That's certainly one way to do it.  Your problem is that you're getting too many civic techs; a couple on the side isn't a bad thing, but too many can leave you without money for more important pursuits.  Early on, that's primarily the task of acquiring planets.

 

But I heard that the most important ones to get in the civic tree were Scavenging, and Enslaved labor for the Vasari in the early game.  Is this true, or only true in certain scenarios?
End of quote

I haven't actually done a breakdown on scavenging, but unless you're destroying enemy structures on a very regular basis I'd avoid it early on.  The problem with this tech is that it's rather expensive to research, and at the same time requires you to be actively fighting the enemy and destroying structures.

As far as Enslaved Labour goes, some people swear by this tech, others are more reserved.  I'm in the reserved category; it's a great tech whose savings can add up, but that's a steep cost to pay in the early game.  It's definitely a worthwhile tech if you have the time and money on hand to go for it, but I wouldn't pursue it at the cost of my military or empire.