Do We Need The Rating System?

An open discussion

How does the rating system work? It is partly based on the level of the user doing the rating. For example, someone at level eight would vote and it would count eight times, while someone at level one would have a vote that counts one time. That's a rough explanation. Based on that, a level eight vote could counter 3 or 4 not so sensible votes. Your trusty Admins and Mods carry the most weight. And they do keep watch on these things and on the not-so-sensible voters.

 Is there a perfect rating system? I have seen a lot of suggestions. I have even made some. We all have seen them or made some. The ideas I have seen often involve more work on the Admin and Mods part. None are perfect. This is because we are human and we have our own tastes and opinions.

Often we disagree with one another. Sometimes we disagree drastically. As long as everyone is allowed an opinion, as they should be, and an opportunity to voice it through comments or rating, there is going to be conflict. Even when two people absolutely love the same thing, it may be for entirely different reasons.

Then you have people who rate something from the gut.  They may be rating from their own sense of who they think the artist is and what they think the artist deserves and not on the actual art. They may rate high just to show support whether as a fan or a friend. They may also rate the work low based on other personal feelings and again, not on the actual work. We may tend to like an artist so much we rate everything they do high, overlooking flaws, because we put the artist first. On the opposite end, we may have such a negative view of an artist that we rate everything low., looking for every imperfection we can find.

There is no way to detect in advance the motivation behind a persons vote. If you question a persons positive vote, you can put them on the defensive. No one wants to be accused of doing something for anything other than the right reasons. If you question their negative vote (a personally motivated vote to be more precise) they can just lie. If someone truly wants to bring it down, they will find a way.

Making anyone jump through hoops to rate one's work, by having to comment first or download first mat deter the positive ratings as much as the negative ones. In my experience, negativity can be a much stronger motivation for some people, whether it is the thrill of what they consider a victory or they are so self-absorbed they feel it won't be rated properly until they have had their say or done their damage.

While we wait to see what the new rating system will be (if there even will be one) I think time is well spent trying to ask ourselves if we truly need one. Often it is said "It's the downloads that count." and I believe this is true. When you have 348,000 downloads or more (or less) does the rating system really matter?

The only two thing I have personally ever seen that boosts downloads of my work is Number One:when it is featured on the home page or in one of Island Dogs threads. My screenshots are proof of this. Any screenshot that has made Screenshot of the Day has had multiple downloads, sometimes going into the double digits. All the others are either low to no downloads at all. And not all of the ones featured had high ratings to begin with, screenshots or any other skins but they were featured. Even the folks picking the features have their own opinions.

Number Two would be anything I have made being featured in someone else's screenshot. (Thanks to all who provide links to my work in their screenshots)

The rating system, in my opinion is mute. It's the promotion of one's work that really makes the difference and should be the topic of discussion. As a community we can do more for each other by promoting one another's work than any rating system can. As a community, that is what we should be doing. The rating system does not hurt your work or the community half as much as the complaining about it and all the negative attention focused on the actual system. My 'suggestion' for a ratings system (like we need another one) is either a simple 'thumbs up and thumbs down' or 'favorites'.Or just leave it all to the number of downloads. Wincustomize is a community and should always be treated as such. As a community we should be about one another as a whole. The Lone Wolfs or folks with an agenda should just get out of the way and limiting the rating system (I'm not saying my idea is perfect) to a 'thumbs up or thumbs down' will help in limiting their (negative) impact on the community.

As the site gets ready to change I think it is important that we are ready to change with it, no matter what rating system is applied to it. As a community we should be bigger and stronger than a few 'stars'. We should be one in why we are here. The love of skinning . Whether you're just an observer, a user, an appreciator, or a skinner. It should be about creating - and sharing, supporting, and promoting everything that is fun, enjoyable, and satisfying about skinning. In my opinion, we don't need the rating system. What's yours?

22,085 views 77 replies
Reply #1 Top

i really thought this was all settled and was taken care of with the new WC site.  What did I miss? :S

Reply #2 Top

Too....

much...

text....

Can't..

stay awak...

zzZZzzzZZ

Reply #3 Top

Too....

much...

text....
End of quote

Sorry.

I edited it.

If it's still too long I'll pull it. Not my intention to bore anyone and if the point gets lost it's pointless to keep it posted.

Reply #4 Top

Your point is understood, well atleast by me.  :sun:

Reply #5 Top

Not too long. One of the 'gifts' of getting older is patience. I think Po' deserves to be heard....he's a good writer and the progression of thought is logical and readable.

I would tend to agree. That's why I suggested (when possible) to name the skin, wall, docks, etc. in any screen shot and agree a link would be nice.

You wrote:  "There is no way to detect in advance the motivation behind a persons vote." Perhaps not, but statistics can indicate trends in voting, rating and associations (viz. Gallup).

Don't pull it. 1. Your thoughts matter, bitch. 2. Most importantly, I agree. ;)

Reply #6 Top

I think the rating system should be done away with...partially.

The mods should keep some sort of rating system to judge whether a skin is good enough to make it in the main gallery. There has to be some moderation system, otherwise the gallery would be full of crap and broken skins. But do we really need to see it? Do we need stars to tell us how good we did on a skin? Is this elementary school?

I care more about the comments and downloads on a skin than I do a star rating. Downloads tell me how good the first impression of the skin is, how good it looks at first glance. Comments tell me what the users think of the skin after trying it out. I always read the comments before I download a skin, they hold more weight with me than any number of stars.

I believe that the 'thumbs up, thumbs down' system would get just as many complaints as the star system, and have just as much potential for abuse. We dont need to see ratings at all.

 

Reply #7 Top

I think we need something to indicate excellence, but what we have now (both rating system and number of downloads) isn't fitting the bill. 

Example:  I skin Rainlendar.  I want to know what qualities make something a top notch Rainlendar, so I can take it apart and make mine the best they can be.  If I search the Rainlendar gallery by ratings, given what the rating system is now, I'm not necessarily going to get what is actual quality -- I'm going to get what is popular, and popular is not always necessarily quality...it's just what's matching with the flavor of the week.  If I search by downloads overall, I get what was popular an eternity ago, and given that those older skins have been around longer, they will HAVE more downloads simply because they were in the game longer.

I don't even think some of the moderators know what to look for as far as "going above and beyond" is concerned when it comes to Rainlendar.  Every skin in that gallery aside from the one I just uploaded yesterday uses the old .ini system (the Rainlendar 1 system) of skinning.  I wanted to push it -- learn the NEW way to skin it -- so I figured out the scripting method (Rainlendar 2) of skinning it.  It got a "meh" rating, like most of my Rainlendars.  I am really proud of myself for pushing the envelope on this program, and I don't need ratings to know I've done something very few skinners have done, and I don't need ratings or downloads for gratification on this one -- the fact that I now have the power over my own desktop environment when it comes to calendar, clock...and in a few weeks I will master the plugins to include weather (Rainlendar does pretty much everything that DesktopX is doing right now, and in my opinion, in a much easier to skin format), is more than enough to keep me skinning it with every Windowblind I create.

My point to all this is that I've grown beyond my skinning existential crisis -- I've found a new reason to upload (so that future skinners can take my stuff apart and see how I did that), and ratings, downloads, all of it is just more BS that I can now ignore.

Reply #8 Top

Well this discussion is alway going to have two sides, Do away with the rating system or Keep the rating system. 

I am not a skinner so basically I have no say in it.  I do have my own opinion, and that opinion helps me choose themes and skins when I decide to do a Theme Manager Suite.  I will tell you it has nothing to do with how many Stars a skin is rated at. :sun:

Reply #9 Top

The/our rating system actually works perfectly fine.
It's some users that doesn't use it correctly - intentionally.

Some (ab)use it to 'down-rate' other artists (read: competition). (Not the actual submission).
Some (ab)use it to 'up-rate' their friends. (Regardless that the submission looks shaite)
Some (ab)use their user-level when rating.

Yeah, we (Admins/Mods) are able to see who rated what on any submission, and are able 'correct' any kind of wrong doing.

Reply #10 Top

I say we keep the rating system, and tar and feather the abusers.. :thumbsup:

Reply #11 Top

I don't even think some of the moderators know what to look for as far as "going above and beyond" is concerned when it comes to Rainlendar. Every skin in that gallery aside from the one I just uploaded yesterday uses the old .ini system (the Rainlendar 1 system) of skinning. I wanted to push it -- learn the NEW way to skin it -- so I figured out the scripting method (Rainlendar 2) of skinning it. It got a "meh" rating, like most of my Rainlendars.
End of quote

 

Under this assumption we should automatically give all new WB's a higher rating than ones made years ago because WB is now harder to skin? 

Skinning has evolved many many times over the years and has steadily become harder to skin, we can not adjust/boost ratings on skin's simply because they followed a programs new skining matrix/engine/etc, no more than we could make all Litestep skin's 10's because they are much harder to make than an icon.

 

But if a new way of skinning stuff revolutionizes how things are done and/or adds some new functionality,. then thats a whole different story all together..

Reply #12 Top

:ninja:  

Reply #13 Top

I think losing anonymity would be highly effective when it comes to rating skins. If you name is placed along with your rating, there will be more honesty and less sniping. either that or scrap the rating system entirely as its just being abused for all the wrong reasons.

 

good post po!k6

Reply #14 Top

If you name is placed along with your rating, there will be more honesty and less sniping
End of quote

 

or less honesty as friends dont want to upset friends so they vote with ther hearts instead of thier minds..

Reply #15 Top

Your thoughts matter, bitch
End of quote

To you and the little man that lives behind my monitior.

 

Thanks for commenting and keeping it civil, y'all. ;)

Reply #16 Top

I am not a skinner so basically I have no say in it
End of quote

Everyone has a say in it. You and your contribution to the site is just as important as anyone elses. I think we forget that sometimes. It's not just about the skinners. It's about uniting the community as a whole with something we all feel good about.

Maybe there is no better system and this one should stand. I'm not claiming to be the expert or anything. I just think a lot of us (skinners and non-skinners) have gotten tired of it or of the complaining (and I have complained myself a few times).

I'm just looking for a healthy discussion with hopes a better idea might emerge or maybe even spark an idea in the minds of those who will make the final decision.

Now someone reach over and bitch-slap Philly for me. You should never minimize your contribution here. It's folks like you and Doc that are the heart and soul of the community.

Reply #17 Top

well said Po, :thumbsup: now shadap and get back in the game we need more noob's to pwn..

Reply #18 Top

 

or less honesty as friends dont want to upset friends so they vote with ther hearts instead of thier minds..
End of quote

... ok for the anonymity but what about to have the total count of how many persons voted and even better the specific number of who voted 5 stars \ 4 stars \ 3 stars etc.

it will be just few lines more respect the usual 1 line of the average count !

easy to say but I don't know if it's also easy to realize for a good site developer !

 

Reply #19 Top
Quoting HG_Eliminator, reply 14

...or less honesty as friends dont want to upset friends so they vote with ther hearts instead of thier minds..

End of HG_Eliminator's quote


A true friend "speaks the truth in love" (to borrow a phrase from the Bible).  One day I asked Kitty to give me her opinion on a skin I was creating, and she told me she was going to be a little more critical, because I'd been skinning long enough to handle the heat -- and she pointed out some things wrong with the skin that I didn't even KNOW were in issue -- she was a real friend to me that day -- she set me straight, and she taught me what I needed to know to improve.  That is more valueable to me than any 10 star rating could ever be.

Reply #20 Top

Just a quick note re Rainlender and the Mods' understanding of the proggy....Rainy's 'modules' were used by Litesteppers along with the more native LS modules so they were skinning them even before Wincustomize.com [and its rating/moderation system].

Ratings are a User-based/controlled filtering system that 'can' be an alternative to a popularity contest through download counts.

There will always be a brilliantly-executed WB skin, say.....that ticks all the boxes of quality....yet is not popular because it is too dark to use for most people.  Without ratings to demonstrate public recognition of the skill all you'd have is a low download count that would have people thinking 'must be crappy'.

Without [some form of public] ratings we lose community opinion/interaction with the skins which I think would be a loss and bad for the site.

If [only] Admins/Moderators can rate the uploads there will be concerns/complaints of elitism or discrimination if/when one person's works attracts a series of lower/higher ratings than another's.

Any system is going to be flawed....but with the option of 'overseeing' by the Admins there are checks and balances to minimise abuse.

Requiring raters to voice a reason for the rating would be as useless as requiring voters in a Presidential election to voice a reason.... "Why did you vote against Obama?" "He's bla.... oops...his policies suck."

You won't get the truth behind the rating/vote just because you ask for it....;)

Reply #21 Top

Well, I guess that answers Po's question of "Do We Really Need A Rating System" -- doesn't matter if we need it, it's going to continue, exactly has it has.  As for me, I think I'm going to adopt that snotty French waiter attitude about my skin ratings -- "what would you know about taste anyway, you common, boorish, simpleton!" XD

Reply #23 Top

"what would you know about taste anyway, you common, boorish, simpleton!"
End of quote

crap. my cover is blown. #:(

Reply #24 Top

Well, I guess that answers Po's question of "Do We Really Need A Rating System" -- doesn't matter if we need it, it's going to continue, exactly has it has.
End of quote

No, it doesn't.

Nowhere did I say that the rating system will stay as is.  I simply said I see the reason for having it....;)

Reply #25 Top

I think I'm going to adopt that snotty French waiter attitude about my skin ratings -- "what would you know about taste anyway, you common, boorish, simpleton!"
End of quote

 

Nowhere did I say that the rating system will stay as is. I simply said I see the reason for having it.
End of quote

Merci, Jafo.

Silly, garçon de café. Maintenant donnez-moi mon soupand achevons. :P