The company might not go extinct, but the quality of games will. And I think you just described that. Why put a ton of effort into making one when no one wants them... or wants to pay for it.

If people just stopped buying crappy games at that price, then the price would lower. The fact is that the people will pay that much for a game they want. If they wouldn't pay it, you would see cheaper games. Actually, if piracy were not possible, PIRATES would probably pay that much for the game. Of course then there would be more incentive to make them and to make them better.

You can think of Piracy as an illegal tax that comes right off the top for gamemakers.

I can think of one company that went bankrupt largely due to piracy in the games industry, and only one. SNK. They were a special case though, as people pirated their arcade stuff.

Dreamcast, Sega, Looking Glass Studios... All died or were bought out due to low sales and piracy (Esp. in the case of the Dreamcast)

Piracy is driven by the fact that the price for dross we are forced to buy is now too high. On the other hand, you can go directly to the source, as this guy did. Personally, I got Sins because they have a dim view of DRM. HAs anyone seen the lengths EA goes to make their rubbish uncopyable? I'd say the crippling DRM is simply a red flag to the cracker groups that make piracy possible, and just the right nudge punters will need to decide it's easier to pirate than go legit. @ SlyDrivel, it's a vicious circle I'm afraid, and can only end in tears, because I know the big businesses really don't want to think that it's their problem, or feel that they should take initiative regarding lowering prices, removing DRM, or increasing quality. It's a useless effor, because almost all games are crackable, (a notable exception would be Codemaster's "Operation Flashpoint". Some wierd bug did some trippy stuff to cracked copies )

Anyways, My point is piracy is a combination of Greed on both sides, and an unwillingness to find happy medium on both sides of the software system.

I think you missed my point. Let's imagine you got a copy of Mass Effect for PC. Also imagine you have little or no internet. Mass Effect wants you to do internet verification periodically otherwise it assassinates your game. Now you head over to a buddy's house, download a 10 MB crack that skips the internet check. You can now use something otherwise rendered unusable due to DRM. Of course, now you're all jaded and bitter because you had to do something illegal to simply use the stupid thing, and you notice no SWAT teams are after you. Why bother will all the effort of purchasing something that simply interferes with it's own running and instead download the thing instead and save some $80 - $120 in some cases.

The problem is piracy makes it easier to play games than the bigwig companies.

EDIT: Whatchoo mean "Pirated Ideas"? I can either take it as "We all do it", or you claiming our reasons unoriginal. Please elaborate.

Saying that pirates are responsible for the destruction of companies in any shape or form is like blaming ants for showing up in your kitchen after you spread peanut butter all over the floor.

Are they annoying? Yes. Are they responsible for the mess? Absurd.


Piracy in any of its forms has never crippled any industry to the point of it ceasing in the creation of a product. Never. It never will.

Sooner companies start learning ways AROUND piracy instead of headbutting themselves against the same damn brick wall they have been for who knows how long the better.

SlyDrivel, I live in Australia, probably designated at the technological toilet of the developed whold, but hey, we cannot hope to live up the the supreme might of our American overlords. Secondly, Fiskingis rude. Also, we do have a really crappy internet infrastructure. I have cable, so I was relating the problem or a friend (otherwise I wouldn't be here... I guess).

But I digress.
Stardock is right to feel morally smug compared to other big name developers and the like. Most of the gaming community (or at least the circles in which I frequent) consider DRM an unnessasary evil. Maybe where you are you get a decent amount of service if it kills itself, or worse, your PC (Crysis kept Blue Screening me) but for most of the world, getting any kind of support might be best described as hell. Before I get too passionate and start getting a quote dictionary out (yeah, they DO exist.. somehow) let me say it's useless trying to whinge about piracy on a forum here when stardock has already made it's position quite clear.

I agree that the whole idea that piracy is directly sapping sales is in many cases, completely wrong, and is a myth perpetuated by naive companies who are stuck in old school thinking and don't understand the modern world. For one thing, when they claim how much money is lost to piracy, they assume that every download would translate into a sale otherwise. This is just plain wrong. Some people who download games simply want whatever they can get without paying for it, or they are the equivilent of game renters, who have a lot of games they want to play for just a few days. If anything, it is rental companies who are losing out from these groups. Then there are those who want to try out games. If they don't like it, they get rid of it, if they do, they buy it. Then there are people who own the game, but can't get it work without turning to the pirates for help. DRM plans are just infamous for making it difficult or impossible for some people to play. Of course we also have the people who won't buy, or who return games because the DRM. They never calculate that out.

Stardock does have a form of copy protection. No patches unless you have a unique serial code. This does not, however, interfere with the installation or playing of the game in any fashion. I think their sales speak for themselves.

So, basically, there is no one in this discussion who believes that digital rights should be defended? In fact, everyone here praises Stardock because they just let pirates steal from them if they want? I am confirmed in my initial belief that you are ALL pirates. I have not heard an opinion from anyone who I would assume has not and will not steal ideas.

It is also interesting to have it confirmed that America's internet infrastructure is infinitely superior to the barbarian countries. Although, America does also have its faults. Some people think that anyway. I usually humm free country in my head until the bad thoughts go away.

"no one", "everyone", "confirmed", "ALL", "anyone", "superior", "barbarian", "America", "free"

Is it just me, or was that a pure flame/bait post?




They smuggle products to sell them at lower cost. Thus they offer a cheaper product.

They do sometimes have better quality and convenience, to a particular person(s). Some people consider a product is of better quality and convenience when it don't require a internet connection to authenticate everytime its used, or when it don't look into the computer systems files and fuck up any virtual drives or other programs that the user use, for example.

All a pirate does is leech off the host (Developer)

If it kills the host, it has no more host to leech off of.

You pirates are stupid if you can't figure this out.

Current forms of DRM have proven to be ineffective. The cheaters find ways around it, and the people who do not steal are often hurt by it.

I am not saying that we should not attempt to curb the cheaters somehow - just that we need to find a new way of doing so because the current methods are ineffective.

The solution should be two sided:

-It should diminish the value of obtaining and using the stolen product.

AND

-It should increase the value of using a legitimate product.

I have yet to see such a solution from classic forms of DRM. The first part of the solution is usually nullified by the hackers, and the second part almost never receives attention from the developers.


I think the larger issue is that the current methods of attempting to curb it are ineffective and are even backfiring. We need new methods that are actually effective against illegal copying and provide benefits for legitimate users.

New online platforms are a step in that direction. They provide clear benefits, such as being able to a new legitimate copy of the game should the old copy of the game get damaged. Pirates also provide copies of the game, but with a substantial cost in convenience and risk. This is how the war against piracy should be fought: More convenience for legitimate use, less convenience for illegitimate use.

Checking the internet every ten days is not a step in that direction: Now the user is punished for not connecting to the internet for a long time, and the convenience of obtaining a new legitimate copy is lost.

In addition, a 10 day check does not address the problem of piracy at all: Being disconnected from the Internet for 10 days says nothing about whether the copy of the game is legal or not. It only says that the user has poor access to the Internet. It says nothing about whether the disconnection was intentional, and worse yet even if the disconnection is intentional, it does not imply that criminal activity is taking place.

Military members would be unfairly punished by a 10 day rule. The military of the United States - and I'm guessing most other militaries as well - orders its soldiers to move to new locations frequently. During the move, the soldier(s) (and usually the family as well) must disconnect their computers. This means that the Internet is down during the move, and it can be well over ten days before the soldier(s) can reestablish a new connection at the new location. This would be a case where completely legitimate customers can be punished when there is no wrongdoing involved.

I have gone 100% piracy free on my system. All current software is paid for. I would agree that piracy is a problem. My disagreement is not about the legalities or the ethics; it is only about the effectiveness of current solutions.