Struggling with Midgame (vs Ai)

from AshesoftheSingularity Forums

New to Ashes and currently struggling with the midgame vs. the AI.  For example, I've played through the campaign on Harder difficulty but can't beat the last two missions (Silgul and Endgame) even though they are easy on Normal.  It's similar in skirmish.

This is actually exciting because I'm not losing the same way everytime which makes it so much fun - this is not a complaint!

What's happenning is that by midgame once I start taking heavy losses on any front I can't keep up with creating armies, building buildings, building defences, managing 2+ fronts, etc.  So I get rolled up on one front and then my entire defences collapse.  My strategy is as follows (Silgul/Endgame as an example):

1) Expand AFAP.  Before 1:00 use an Engineer to capture then Archer/Brutes.  Push push push.

2) Build lots of factories (up to 4) then Armories (up to 4) then a couple more factories (and a couple Sky factories).  When resources are available build 2 Dreadnought factories.  By this point have one engineer dedicated to building quanta.

3) Build Archer/Brutes, Artemises with the odd Apollo and Zeus, and cycle through all Dreadnought builds.  Use fighters to keep the sky clear of bombers.

4) Create a heavily defended area at each front (2 or 3 fronts usually).  This is my gathering and fallback point.

5) Send "overhwelming" force down one front (coupled with the majority of reinforcements) while building just enough units at the other front(s) to keep them defensible. 

6) Have my forces whittled down by defences at each power generator (and orbital nanites) until I'm outmanned. (P.S. - how do you deal with orbital nanites? They wipe out my entire force except Dreadnoughts very, very quickly)

7) Lose.

I've obviously tinkered with this strategy but am just not finding anything succesful in the midgame.  Once losses start piling up I get overwhelmed and am unable to keep up with all the actions required.  I've looked at all the strategy guides but at this point there's not much.  Maybe I'm not doing a good enough job of scouting, of playing the Rock-Paper-Scissors game of unit building, of efficient resource management? But again, I find that by mid to endgame I just can't be quick enough to manage scouts, engineers, 2+ armies, and the economy once any one area needs significant attention. 

Appreciate any thoughts/tips.

35,794 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

For Endgame specifically:

Expand fast, taking all the resources in your area. As soon as you have a decent economy, start building defenses on the bridge to Mac's place. Not many, maybe 2 sentry's and a sentinel. Do build a bunch of AA, both here and around the northern part of your area. Get an Anti-Dread Dreadnought first, then the Area Dominance one. You're going to have to hold the bridge against Ha's attacks(don't build defenses here beyond AA if you want), then immediately push one dread into Athene's base. The Anti-dread Dreadnought is great, both against Athene's dreadnought as well as her base itself. Also, when possible, push up from the bridge and Athene's base: there's a chokepoint not too far away. Take that, and build up a base around it(though be careful about the Substrate artillery building). Don't push too hard: you don't want to lose your Dreads.

While you're finishing off Athene, build up 3 dreads (I use 1 area dominance and 2 Seige), and push to finish off the PHC base to the north. You'll want 3 strong armies to do this. Finish off the PHC, then look at your units. If they're somewhat strong, consider pushing west a bit. However, as soon as they start to get damaged, pull back to the initial bridge(where Mac mentioned building a base). At this point, you should have most of the map, so it's better to keep experienced dreadnoughts around. Build your forces up again, then push to win. 

Other Notes: 

  • The AI will harass using air units, so make sure to have plenty of Anti Air, especially around your main base and any significant build areas. Also keep some units around your base, because the PHC commander will use some of the harassment Orbital abilities.
  • Orbital abilities are useful: make sure you have plenty of quanta. By midgame you should have the resources to just constantly build QA's. I generally have a team of 2-4 engineers with a huge queue of QA's to build. Be careful though, the AI really like to use orbital abilities as well, so don't overextend your dreadnoughts or you'll have to rebuild them a lot, which will slow things down if nothing else.
  • Make sure you upgrade stuff as well. Use abilities when key, but generally I prefer to ignore things besides Orbital Strike, EMP, and healing. Especially for constant use, as past a point most of the others become too expensive for their cost.
  • AMPLIFY. You have a bunch of 3-4 resource nodes nearby. Improving your economy is a must, especially early on. 
  • Don't overbuild defenses: they're useful, but if a decent army comes by unsupported defenses will fall. Try to only be building defenses at one point at any given time, while you push with the other side. Anti Aircraft are the only real except to this. 
  • Drones are dealt with AA, as well as healers to recover from damage. Be generous with AA cruisers as well as AA turrets.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Your problem is actually the early game.  This pretty much sums up why you're losing.

 

2) Build lots of factories (up to 4) then Armories (up to 4) then a couple more factories (and a couple Sky factories).  When resources are available build 2 Dreadnought factories.  By this point have one engineer dedicated to building quanta.
End of quote

 

By the time I get a second dreadnought launch up, I have between 4 and 8 engineers building quantum generators.  You're making way too many dreads and no where near enough quanta.  I have an engineer dedicated to that before the first launch.  As you ravage the AI, you'll come across them scattered all over the map, they build quite a few and you want to stay ahead, not just keep up with them.

 

Aside from being extra targets, frigates are basically something you build for free with your spare metal, you shouldn't be pumping so many factories out unless you're not using up your metal with the armories.  They essentially have a ten second lifespan in combat, they're all but useless on the offensive.  Cruisers have a much higher utility, and you'll need a lot of them pumping out to replace the losses as you march.  Keeping your forces spread will help with getting the cruisers wiped, and waiting until you have four defensive upgrades to push out will allow your dreads to reliablly survive the orbital strike.

 

You should also be fortifying defensive positions.  Multiple repair bays with sentinels and an artillery army for long range bombardment will work wonders holding a plateau.  Expanding fast is good, but you need a good hard line somewhere for the AI to throw itself against in futility while you expand into another area.  Otherwise you'll be splitting your focus constantly, and your reinforcements.

Offworld Trading Company
Reply #3 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Turtle till you have enough quanta to drop nuke, incursion, probing force and carving turret in that order on top of the enemy nexus. Beat all campaign on "much harder". Thank god ai for some reason dosn't use jammers since phc bombers are pos compared to substrate and can't touch it. Also, as mentioned before, you need plenty of aa for this mission. I'd def recommend apollo at 2x of whatever the rest of your queue is and 4-6 patterns of falcons at the north, west, and all defense/rallys you choose. Also, I don't believe frigates are that useless. Build brutes for the meat shield, archers for xtra dps, hermes to scout for your archers/artemis (unless you reinforce with pan) and obviously medics, because they're the save all. Personally I rock 1 for 1 in terms of my armory and factory ratios. Apply this to all games and adjust build order accordingly for counters and you should be fine. BTW... the apollo isn't just for the ludicrous amount of bombers they send at you, but also to deal with the plethora of drones that the ai deploys for this mission. Further clarification and specifics are available if OP desires them.

 

This is based off of "much harder" playthroughs. I'm not sure but, i think that the aa wasn't THAT important in "normal".

This is based off of the 1.1 patch. The nerfs to the "punisher" in recent micropatches might let you get away with a 1x1 ratio for the apollo; I have yet to try it with the latest patches. Finally gettin payed, can't wait to see you guys in ranked. :p

 

multiple edits because English is my second language. :(

Reply #4 from GalCiv3 Forums Top

Quoting vicious4220, reply 3

Turtle till you have enough quanta to drop nuke, incursion, probing force and carving turret in that order on top of the enemy nexus. Beat all campaign on "much harder". Thank god ai for some reason dosn't use jammers since phc bombers are pos compared to substrate and can't touch it. Also, as mentioned before, you need plenty of aa for this mission. I'd def recommend apollo at 2x of whatever the rest of your queue is and 4-6 patterns of falcons at the north, west, and all defense/rallys you choose. Also, I don't believe frigates are that useless. Build brutes for the meat shield, archers for xtra dps, hermes to scout for your archers/artemis (unless you reinforce with pan) and obviously medics, because they're the save all. Personally I rock 1 for 1 in terms of my armory and factory ratios. Apply this to all games and adjust build order accordingly for counters and you should be fine. BTW... the apollo isn't just for the ludicrous amount of bombers they send at you, but also to deal with the plethora of drones that the ai deploys for this mission. Further clarification and specifics are available if OP desires them.

 

This is based off of "much harder" playthroughs. I'm not sure but, i think that the aa wasn't THAT important in "normal".

This is based off of the 1.1 patch. The nerfs to the "punisher" in recent micropatches might let you get away with a 1x1 ratio for the apollo; I have yet to try it with the latest patches. Finally gettin payed, can't wait to see you guys in ranked. :P

 

multiple edits because English is my second language. :(
End of vicious4220's quote

 

weird, when I played the mission yesterday all three enemies had hammers by the time I could drop a nuke @@ couldn't get a nuke within 3 nodes of their nexus and that was on normal.

Reply #5 from AshesoftheSingularity Forums Top

Quoting Around999People, reply 4


Quoting vicious4220,
reply 3

Turtle till you have enough quanta to drop nuke, incursion, probing force and carving turret in that order on top of the enemy nexus. Beat all campaign on "much harder". Thank god ai for some reason dosn't use jammers since phc bombers are pos compared to substrate and can't touch it. Also, as mentioned before, you need plenty of aa for this mission. I'd def recommend apollo at 2x of whatever the rest of your queue is and 4-6 patterns of falcons at the north, west, and all defense/rallys you choose. Also, I don't believe frigates are that useless. Build brutes for the meat shield, archers for xtra dps, hermes to scout for your archers/artemis (unless you reinforce with pan) and obviously medics, because they're the save all. Personally I rock 1 for 1 in terms of my armory and factory ratios. Apply this to all games and adjust build order accordingly for counters and you should be fine. BTW... the apollo isn't just for the ludicrous amount of bombers they send at you, but also to deal with the plethora of drones that the ai deploys for this mission. Further clarification and specifics are available if OP desires them.

 

This is based off of "much harder" playthroughs. I'm not sure but, i think that the aa wasn't THAT important in "normal".

This is based off of the 1.1 patch. The nerfs to the "punisher" in recent micropatches might let you get away with a 1x1 ratio for the apollo; I have yet to try it with the latest patches. Finally gettin payed, can't wait to see you guys in ranked. :P

 

multiple edits because English is my second language. :(



 

weird, when I played the mission yesterday all three enemies had hammers by the time I could drop a nuke @@ couldn't get a nuke within 3 nodes of their nexus and that was on normal.

End of Around999People's quote

 

Ya, I thought it was a little weird as well. I've beat all the missions on much harder now and I don't remember any of them having jammers. The AI isn't even using them in skirmish anymore either, and I mostly play against tough AI...