Just wondering...

Please do not override the OS detection for IconPackager.

Once installed it will trash your icons on uninstall.  There is a very good reason it is blocked from working on Windows 10!

That's a real shame if by that you mean there will never be a Win10 version of IP. 

We plan to do an IconPackager for Windows 10, but unfortunately, a lot of the cool stuff you guys are used to isn't as much in demand at is used to so we can't put a lot of engineering resources on it.

Hope those plans bear fruit, Brad.

Sorry to hear that the demand is waning to that degree.

'Bout to re-up, here, FWIW, & a Surface Pro 4 likely to be had by spring, so...

My demand... or should I say interest hasn't waned one iota, and I'm pretty sure many other OD subscribers want to see the core components, especially that of IconPackager, maintained and updated on a more regular basis.  I've been holding off on upping my OD sub due to the uncertainity surrounding Iconpackager,  but if there were a firm commitment to its continued development I'd update in a heartbeat, without hesitation.

As for the waning demand, there will always be a core base of customers who will want to customise and skin their desktops.  However, it could very well be that some hardcore skinners/costomisers became disillusioned and dropped off because of Stardock's change of focus towards gaming... feeling [again] that it was the beginning of the end of skinning.

In a way you can't blame them.  Other customisation software developers during the period had disappeared or went to the wall, with others changing their focus to gaming or other endeavours, so when apps like Iconpackager were put very much on the back burner to make way for game development, Stardock was seen as going the same way, and maybe long time, hardcore skinners/customisers felt; "What's the point?"

So, is it really a drop in demand, or just that the support and software development to keep on skinning/customising seemed to be disappearing? 

What's chicken, what's egg is of little relevance - if SD doesn't anticipate a return on that dev investment, even if that anticipation is wrong, it won't happen.  In which case, we'll never know.  Don't blame them, nature of the biz.

Oh well, if IconPackager isn't updated to work properly on Win 8.1 [don't give a fech about 10] then updating my OD subscription does become somewhat doubtful... and from what I've been reading, quite a few OD users feel the same way, in particular those on Win 10.  Without the ability to easily change desktop icons in 10, there simply is no point to customising the rest of it.  I mean, seriously, who the fech wants to see a skinned UI totally feched up by MS' butt ugly icons?   Those Fisher Price rejects ruin everything, so yeah, I sincerely hope a revamped Iconpackager is in the works and due for release sooner rather than later.

No disrespect Neil, but that has happened since the XP days with IP.

Drop on demand, lack of interest. Vista/Win7 were good looking enough for interest in skinning Windows (or make it look like MacOSX, which fueled a lot of this too) to drop like a ton of bricks. As Brad also stated in a previous article he wrote, skinning Windows was now so complex (i.e.; so many elements to skin) that it became a core instead of being fun. Anyway, have a look at this last thread in the AquaSoft forums for more reasons why.

RAM no longer being a problem as well as a ton of improvements to the Windows Explorer shell since the Win9x days, again making it good enough, also killed most of the Windows Shell replacements (Litestep, etc...).

Windows 10 made Windows butt ugly again, but interest in skinning it will never go back to what it once was. Skinning was new at some point, now it's old news. Most software already looks 'good enough'.

I beg to differ.

-There's a whole new generation out there that for a fact never even heard of skinning or that anything CAN even be done about the looks of the Windows OS.

I am of the firm belief that a wide marketing campaign -advertising, would open up the eyes of the most part of that generation (and a lot of the ones before too that never heard about skinning either) and skinning and windowblinds would have a BIG comeback !

Not only skinning died in the last 7-8 years. "Desktop" died. Just look what happened to Windows. Today skinning is about changing launcher on your Android device and maybe icons too. Younger people don't care about desktop or so it seems. Even Linux skinning died during this period.

I sympathize with you, neone6, but JcR is probably more right than wrong.

Lots of reasons that interest in skinning in general is down.  For one, as you well know (you do great work, BTW), it's now very difficult to produce a quality skin absent significant skill with graphics apps and TONS of time.  Doing a skin justice is a pixel-by-pixel endeavor and my hat's off to those of you still at it.

For 6 or 7 years I was an enthusiastic WB skinner & spent a fair amount of time doing it as a hobby, mainly for my own use.  Producing a nice, quality skin was fairly straightforward, even including animations, and I could have a very usable one from scratch in a week or three, sometimes more depending on how self-critical I was at the time.  Even published a few (2006, 2007).  Unfortunately, it got to be more like work with Windows7, with a lot more images & details to manage.  Maybe it's just a reflection of my natural interest curve over time, but I don't think I'm alone among folks who've been around WC 14-15 years.  Many/most of the early artists most skilled at WB skinning (I'll use essorant as just one example) eventually moved on.

Even though IconPackager & IconDeveloper have always been quirky enough to be a bit frustrating, at one time I considered doing some IP packages & spent hours attempting to get the hang of creating icons by studying mormegil's tutorials (which are awesome, BTW).  In the event, I found it too complicated and time-intensive for an amateur, part-time skinner like me.

Of course, I've limited myself to WC & SD apps, so there's that, but I think SD have the data & a good understanding of the trends over the past 4-5 years.  My guess is that interest/activity peaked with XP & has been waning since the release of Win7.

YMMV

That's my understanding too. Windows XP was the golden days for desktop and skinning. Windows 7 is more locked down and it only got worse from there.

Well, we have different beliefs apparently

Quoting neone6, reply 14

Well, we have different beliefs apparently

End of neone6's quote

As much as I want to believe otherwise I am pessimistic about this. Desktop and skinning were killed by "mobile". Desktop is seen as old technology and nobody "brags" about their desktop anymore. Having the latest iPhone or Samsung is all that matters. The whole tech world has been screaming "mobile" for the past 5-6 years. Mobile is the new religion. If you don't use a smartphone people think you are retarded...

Hopefully the future will prove that I am all wrong about this!

May the force be strong with desktop/skinning and overthrow the evil mobile empire!

Personally speaking....

Times have changed a lot since Windows XP in regards to Windows, and tech in general. XP, while bringing in a new look compared to previous versions, was still different and being able to change it to something really different and amazing was great -- and fun.

Vista introduced a new look for the OS, and Windows 7 and 8 built more upon that all the way up to Windows 10. For most people, the OS looks fine clean and fine now.

Computing has also changed since the old skinning days with the introduction of mobile technology. I think there are a great deal of people now who don't use the desktop much (aside from work) and just use their mobile devices such as phones and tablets. 

With lots of people content on how Windows looks, it's now moved more over to the productivity side of things. I think that's the reason why apps like Start8/10 and Fences are so popular.

I don't think there's one single reason for the decline in the interest of skinning, but a combination of things such as the ones I mentioned above. That certainly doesn't mean there isn't a future or interest in skinning, it's just moved back into that niche category for a certain portion of Windows users.

I'am one that uses his desktop all the time.  The phone is more for calling but I do use it for other things when I'am not home.  But I will admit I only use object dock, WB and cursorFX now

Wondering about that interest thing...we all take that as a 'for granted'. Perhaps that should be questioned. Site mismanagement (e.g. Customize.org), etc. don't necessarily mean general public uninterest...

When Jorge introduced Winstep to the German market, he saw large interest despite the fact that Winstep wasn't new at that point...I'm not fully convinced that the market isn't really there if skillfully done marketing done by specialists showing the work of Master skinners applied to W10 were done. If that gets a response, then the logical extension might well be to extend skinning to mobile devices...the only fly in that ointment would be the general lack of interest in Windows phones...

Maybe if there is interest demonstrated by the marketing, MS's Surface devices might be amenable to a modified WB...just thinking out loud...FWIW.

Andy...Brad believes in WB...and his company's products. Don't forget: He's the guy keeping WC alive. 

I just think that yes, the PC market is shrinking and I.D. is correct: The mobile market is the big time. I just wonder whether a simpler WB10 Mobile might not generate business...realizing that the real market is iOS and Android. It might well be that the investment might be large...so that the way to go would be first to see if there's any interest by gauging the response to WB10 in a naive (unexposed to skinning) group of consumers...and crunching the numbers.

The Surface market, at least with respect to skinning, is the same as the desktop market - both running the desktop OS (except for RT).  I expect to move into the Surface market by this spring & will look forward to using the compatible apps.  Re-upping this month.

At some point at least, say 10-15 years ago, there were some people making skins for the handhelds at the time - Palms and Clie's anyway.  Don't know how that went for them and I didn't follow it - not for my lack of interest in the skins, rather that's when I discovered I had very little interest in handheld devices.  (That's just the way it is for me and I've accepted it, ya a lot of people do have interest in them   ).

Oh, I think that that had more to do with my (lack of) marketing skills than anything else. The reason there was a large interest was mostly because the Proxma AG guys did a great job making German people aware that something called Winstep existed - they contacted German magazines, German software sites, promoted the Winstep software wherever and whenever they could, etc... Marketing done right is a full time job, I assure you, but it's worth it's weight in gold.

For instance, I'm pretty sure a large number of people still running RocketDock have never even heard of Winstep Nexus.

This is one thing Brad (and by extension Stardock) excelled at. You get a guy who is really good at promoting and evangelizing stuff like Brad together with a tech wizard like Neil (hey, look, I got your name right this time ) and magic happens!

Same here, the desktop PC is the only way to go when at home... better screen real estate and easier on the eyes.  And yes, the phone is for making/receiving calls, though I do use mine as a MP3 player and other things while out.  Mostly, though, I use my HP .2-in-1 tablet while out... again, better screen real estate [13.5"] and it has the full version of Win 8.1, meaning I have all the funtionality of my desktop PC at home.

As for the desktop PC being dead, tell the PC manufacturers that, not to mention Intel. AMD, Nvidia and other hardware manufacturers, all of whom having invested heavily in the larger form of computing.  Not only that, I read recently that tablet sales have slowed recently, suggesting that tablets are an 'as well as' rather than an 'instead of.  With most people who wanted a tablet now having one, sales are going to slow, with perhaps some first-time buyers but moreso users replacing older units being the main buyers.

Ooo, thank you for reminding me about Winstep! I had forgotten all about that. I've been disappointed in the last couple of iterations of OD and had been using it for a long time but it just doesn't seem to be keeping up anymore. In the past it did seem that Stardock was quicker about getting compatibility with the newest version of the operating system, but that has dropped off in the past few years. I had gauged the decline to coincide when they started game development, but that's just my guess.