Fighters and AA frigates underwhelming?..

from Sins Forums

Every time I build lots of fighters or anti-air units, they rarely seem to do that much damage in late game.  In the game I currently am playing, I had about 30 squadrons of fighters, and they weren't even able to take out an LRM unit in one pass.  They are fully researched as well with all autocannon upgrades.  And whenever I try to get them to attack bombers, they can't kill them faster than the enemy carriers can respawn them.  Am I missing something here?  How should I use my fighters and AA units?  Or should I not even waste my time with them?  I'm playing TEC by the way.

12,779 views 11 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

TBH 15 carriers really isn't all that much for late game. You probably want around 40-50 carriers TEC/VAS or 28-35 Advent Carriers.

 

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

For air supremacy you need to have about 3 fighters for every 2 enemy bombers. From your post I'd think it was the other way around.

Also send an Akkan with your flak units, since then the flak units will have a little more range and chance to hit.

 

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Can you upload a replay please? There is no way 30 fighters can't take out a lrm in one pass. Also, like zombie said, 15 carriers is really a mid game force. 

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

The same amount of fighers cannot take out the same amount of bombers.

If you are facing 50 bomber wings and you have 50 figher wings, the bombers will only be destroyed after the bomber carrier has run out of AM to replace them. Which takes several minutes. In the meantime, most stuff those bombers do hit is dead.

Fighters are only interesting if you have a significant numerical advantage. Which is ironic.... realistically one should need much more bombers to penetrate a fighter screen, not the other way arround.

 

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

I literrally *never* see bombers vs fighters in 5s, vs AI you can make any ship work.

As soon as ppl see my fighters they instantly switch, because if they dont they just level my titan for free. I guess this could be true wtih some sick lategame spam with MASS bombers but advent can simply use guardians and the effect is the same. As for TEC, bombers cant kill ankylon fast enough and who cares about ragnarov - that titan is baaaad :P

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting JinglyGoo, reply 5
I literrally *never* see bombers vs fighters in 5s, vs AI you can make any ship work.

As soon as ppl see my fighters they instantly switch, because if they dont they just level my titan for free. I guess this could be true wtih some sick lategame spam with MASS bombers but advent can simply use guardians and the effect is the same.
End of JinglyGoo's quote

Hmm? So you deploy 100% fighter compositions viably? How does this work? Does it scare people into switching and thereby avoid bombers by virtue of deterrence? Or is it actually super-effective in straight-up combat against bomber compositions (at 50+ squadrons per side)? I would imagine you'd have to use it in consort with flak burst / telekinetic push / jam weapons to prevent them thar horde of bombers from taking out a capital ship or two.

Also, Guardians? Those don't do anything to strikecraft.

Furthermore, I don't see 100% fighters being very great for Advent or Vasari because then they don't have anything very effective against starbases.

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Skrimyt, reply 6


Hmm? So you deploy 100% fighter compositions viably? How does this work? Does it scare people into switching and thereby avoid bombers by virtue of deterrence? Or is it actually super-effective in straight-up combat against bomber compositions (at 50+ squadrons per side)? I would imagine you'd have to use it in consort with flak burst / telekinetic push / jam weapons to prevent them thar horde of bombers from taking out a capital ship or two.

Also, Guardians? Those don't do anything to strikecraft.

Furthermore, I don't see 100% fighters being very great for Advent or Vasari because then they don't have anything very effective against starbases.
End of Skrimyt's quote

Yep most titan based fleets run with only fighters, ocasionally you see bombers when there is no counter but normally its just fighter spam. Fighters decimate bombers and it provides free XP. Yes fighters arent anywhere as strong as bombers for actual attacks on starbases and fleets but deterrance tends to be the main reason for it. They still do decent damage on mass but need to be microed a bit more with FFing.

Not sure what you mean about Guardians though.

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top

I personally prefer fighters late game as well...they are best late game counter to corvettes (flak just melt to titan AoEs and are useless for focus firing), they can rake in XP against bomber spam, and (unlike corvettes) can still focus fire on SBs or caps with lethal AoEs (like MB, mass disorientation, RB, etc)...there are times when bomber spam or corvette spam would be ideal, but in general I think fighters are your safest bet...

If you do carrier vs. carrier fights, the bombers will outperform the fighters...but you have to figure that realistically, a player is probably focusing their bombers on a cap, titan, SB, or key support item (like a repair bay or guardian) and not the carriers...so in practice, if your SB/cap/titan can survive the bomber swarm long enough for the fighters to whittle down the enemy SC, it really is essentially free XP...

The trick is surviving the bomber swarm...Vasari are at an advantage here because of overseers and kortul spam (with JW)...Advent and TEC have a harder time, especially Advent vs. Vasari bombers....AR and TL have a leg up since their titans have abilities that directly impact survivability, AL and TR are in the worst position for this and basically have to bank on Kol/Halcyon spam...

And btw, repulsion doesn't affect SC so I don't see how that lends to Advent being good at countering bomber spam...maybe you mean something else....

 

Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 8
f you do carrier vs. carrier fights, the bombers will outperform the fighters...
End of Seleuceia's quote

Good post Seleucia, but this part isn't even true. I did a reproduction of ARESIV's test with 45 carriers on each side and in every test (did all matchups) the fighters consistently outperform the bombers. The carriers with the fighters only lose like 5 ships before completely dominating the bombers.

Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top

Its for ninjaing unsuspecting titans or cap ships sin, hardly anyone rolls in with mass bombers vs fighters any more though, it just doesnt happen and super easy to counter.

Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Seleuceia, reply 8


And btw, repulsion doesn't affect SC so I don't see how that lends to Advent being good at countering bomber spam...maybe you mean something else....

 
End of Seleuceia's quote

That's what I was asking, in reply to this:

Quoting JinglyGoo, reply 5
I guess this could be true wtih some sick lategame spam with MASS bombers but advent can simply use guardians and the effect is the same.
End of JinglyGoo's quote

 

All I can see Guardians doing is helping Advent caps last longer against TEC/Advent bombers... they don't otherwise do anything to SC. Also I don't think they work against phase missiles.

(Against corvettes, Repulsion is pretty awesome though)