cugeldaclever

Join Date 08/2012

M&R Counterattack - serious unbalance ????

My play style is to treat this as a city centric game - MOM II or CIV 5 w Magic

So it;'s been pretty great

Extending counterattack to M&r iseems to be a recent choice - implemeneted in the late beta

IN tactitcal my focus is in high inigtitive units that can get multiple shot in - while the opponent has limited options..

Now whats the point? - Every time my high inititive unit gets a shot the Great wolf, this is just an example, counterattacks for examp[le WTF????

The faster I am - The more the other guy gets to chew on my Face??

An To add injury toi insult it then gets its turn an dcan finish off my unit before a support unit can heal.

To make thingsw even worse it seems that units with Maul and or Backswing get theese capbilities on the counterattack.

If I am right about this that REALLY sux.

It was a duel with an escaped juggernut that inspired this little rant

Anyone else noticed something similar?

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the counter attacking unit only gets one counter attack(or two in specific cases - Athican longsword) PER initiative cycle of that unit. So the slower it is, the less counter attacks it has.

Which means you will get countered the first attack, but not again until the unit has its next initiative moment. So toss in something to get grinded and then attack with everything else.

High initiative units can attack many times before the unit gets a chance to counter attack again.

...

or just use spears vs. counter attacking units.

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I have a question: When units get their opportunity to counter-attack, does that unit have any penalties to hit the attacking unit? I think this would help reduce the overall feeling of Swords being OP compared to other weapon forms.

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Quoting BernieTime,

reply 2

When units get their opportunity to counter-attack, does that unit have any penalties to hit the attacking unit?

No.

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i have no idea what the OP is talking about. needs better grammar

what is M&r ?

the great wolf isn't much of a threat. I't can't counterattack when it's dead. The flock of little wolves with boosted damage are a bit more of a threat, especially to any unarmoured target.

Maul does NOT trigger on a counterattack. I'm not sure if backswing does, i've never tested that. there aren't many ways for a unit to have both of those abilities.

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

Monsters and Ruffians.

And you should always always bring some spears to a fight against them. Or if your unit has Counterattack ability, park in range of the beastie and insult its parentage. When you end a unit's move without taking an action it gets a bonus to its Defence which helps with absorbing the punishment of being on the front line.

Same as them, you only get one counterattack (unless your weapon allows more) so you still get attacked at least once for your trouble, but you're getting a slightly better deal because you're fighting defensively and getting that bonus to Defence.

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oh. why shouldn't mosnters have counterattacks? they certainly don't get an infinite amount of them.

and if you're needing more than 2 hits to kill a great wolf, you're doing it wrong

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

Depends. If you're sending in guys with clubs, they're aren't exactly reliable as far as damage goes.

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Quoting ,

quoting post

Now whats the point? - Every time my high inititive unit gets a shot the Great wolf, this is just an example, counterattacks for examp[le WTF????

The faster I am - The more the other guy gets to chew on my Face??

No.

Everytime it's the wolf's turn, he charges up his counterattack ability. Next time he gets attacked in melee (by something that is not a spear), he uses up that counterattack. He does not get any more counterattacks until it is his turn again.

That means if your high initiative unit gets to attack three times for every attack the wolf does, only the first of those three attacks gets counterattacked.

1, wolf attacks(charging up counterattack ability)

2, your units attacks - wolf counterattacks(using up the charged counterattack)

3, your unit attacks - no counterattack(its not charged)

4, your unit attacks - no counterattack

5, wolf attacks(charges up c/a)

6, your unit attacks - wolf counterattacks

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Quoting BernieTime,

reply 2

They are not OP. Every weapon has it's advantages:

- spears are immune to counterattack, and ignore a significant part of enemy defense(50% minimum)

- maces have a chance that is equal to damage done to knock the target down(making it lose its next turn) Possibly the most OP once you start doing damage in double digits

- swords get one counterattack per cycle(some special swords two)

- axes get to attack again if first attack misses(arguably the weakest ability, only good for inaccurate units or when the enemy has very high dodge)

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There are complete threads going on about the benefits of each weapon type and it's universally agreed upon that Swords are the best bang for your buck. I respect the other weapons, but Swords in general are better because they always process and you will typically get 2 strikes to your opponents single strike. Not going to debate it here as there are really really long threads about it

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I have no problem with swords being the best (actually, one handed spears are the best in Fallen enchantress, but lets not argue here)

I do have a problem with swords only costing as much as other weapons of the same tier. Swords should be best, but they should cost a ton more to produce than an axe.

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Humility

Join Date 09/2007

Sword may be nice, but I find spear is very useful, it's cheap, and easier to make for trained troop...I do like many archer with few spearmen to back them up. I love this style! Swordmen is nice, but it's too much resouce (weight for troop, yikes) and long build... I find spear better, it's very light weight and not worry about counterattacks, had a simple ignore a significant part of enemy defense , had a shorter training troop but it's may not stop maul, but not worry about it if archer do job well before something or someone come to spearmen...

I do love spear, I do like sword very much, but not this game thank to spearmen and archer, too many game spear isn't very useful (I don't know about those total war medival time or total war rome time)

Now this game spear is almost like a real world, it's easy to training, cost low, and done good job in damage even armors, simple poke in right way...if done a right way, because in real world armor do had weakness spot, not all cover human body...

I don't use single hand spear, because I don't want too heavy on troop, I like troop had lot of turn and fast, that's why I don't see single hand spear because sheild is too heavy...

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MarvinKosh

Join Date 08/2005

+87

Swords do have their uses.

Picture a defensive line of sword-and-shield guys who all get a counterattack and who are slowing the enemy down with their zone of control - you can only go one square by an enemy, even if you could usually move more, unless there's a longer way around.

Now behind that line your ice or fire stave mages are blasting nineteen shades out of the enemy. Or maybe you like archers. You might have a champion back there healing or buffing or debuffing, and some mounted troops dashing up to a gap in the line to score a hit with their spears.

The sword guys may be encumbered to their eyes but they're able to take the punishment and deal some back - although not much, if your enemy is wearing chain mail head to toe. More importantly, they're wasting your enemy's time and strength while you're doing your best to atomise them.

See this is where the Defender trait or the +X when defending bonus comes into play. You don't attack with your swordsmen, you passively wait for an attack to come and then respond. True, the damage may kill those sworsdmen, but hopefully they buy you one more round of ranged volleys before they die.

Because their role is to basically stand there and take a beating and perform a counterattack against anything but spears, it doesn't matter too much if they die, you can train more. The guys behind the line level up and get even better at blasting the enemy to smithereens.

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