I'm seeing some of this stuff as well, and while there are definitely some "quirks" with the game, it's hardly what I would consider "game breaking" because I'm still kicking the AI's butt in anything below Expert without really trying. It's basically like the old days of Moo (or w/e other games you're into) when you're playing on Hard/Impossible, knowing that the AI cheats because it needs to in order to compete. If you're having a hard time on Challenging, simply turn down the difficulty and get used to the game. Before long, you'll be steam rolling them even if they are cheating.

Of course that doesn't mean that these stuff should be ignored, they should be looked into, but let's not blow it out of proportion, shall we? If anything, the only thing that this really does is put a dent in Brad's claim about the AI playing fairly, and you know Brad isn't going to let that slide.

Amen!  This is so true; and this does not bode well for any of us.  (I don't play anywhere near Tuidjy's level of play.  However, I am okay with that, because I have found niches that are major  *FUN*  for me.) 

But causing new players to get creamed, and then rage-quit, and then bad-mouth this game to their friends hurts us all in the long run.  I can find a stream of Original Posts in the last 6 months, where one new player, after another, has said this game is either too hard to enjoy; or the AI cheats; or the game developers have mis-represented the play-mechanics of the game.  Really, this needs some positive attention by the Stardock development team!          Just a few examples:

     "AI ruining the game?"    https://forums.elementalgame.com/435038     (Oct 26, 2012)

     "AI too hard"    https://forums.elementalgame.com/435074     (Oct 26, 212)

     "Its too difficult on easy"    https://forums.elementalgame.com/433598     (Oct 9, 2012)

     "[.915] Lots of good, but kind of unplayable"    https://forums.elementalgame.com/427714    (July 2012)

     "Frustratingly hard!!! - even on easy"    https://forums.elementalgame.com/424810    (May 2012)

  And Major thanks to you, Tuidjy, for conducting this experiment/demonstration.         

We need a video of someone playing one of the top two difficulties..

Because players are full of themselves and it hurts their Ego to play on easy.  If you would rename the difficulty levels and call easy normal instead then people would rather play on that difficulty.  I am a veteran strategy gamer and I lost on easy on my first game, sure I learned the mechanics and am doing fine on my second playthrough on normal.

But I am a hardcore strategy gamer and I have former experience with Stardock games (Galciv 1&2, SoSE) and I know better than to crank up the difficulty untill I have learnt the mechanics. But a casual rpg/strategy player probably puts the difficulty to normal cause that is whats he/she is used to from other games when in fact the player should start on novice or beginner

And peoples Ego is a precious thing so in order to protect the Ego they will say that the game sucks rather than admitting that they suck at strategy.  Hence most game developer have easy....eh easy and normal is for the average player where he expects to win.  Therefore it's better to scale difficulty upwards to Nightmare and Masochistic difficulties rather than downwards to Pathetic and Wimpy difficulties

Brad, you said that on challenging, the AI plays fairly.

I assume that you were mistaken, not lying.  If you were mistaken about challenging, you may have been mistaken about the lower difficulties. 

Frogboy, I said it once and I repeat, becuase you migth have missed it first time.

You really need to stop doing that.

When people ask you a simple honest question, don't take it personally, don't answer a question with another question, don't broaden the topic and answer something that isn't being asked for. That's simple politeness.

In this particular that you refuse to answer, someone whom you don't pay, someone who actually paid you, is doing your job. He is finding bugs in a released product of yours. Showing you explicitly, that some of your previous statements about AI were false. Especially two. 1 that AI on challenging is not receiving bonuses and plays fair. 2. that AI players is treated equally by the world (city placement, monster aggression, autoresolve of combats, autoresolve of quests etc.) regardless of difficulty. You respond with dissmissal.

Either add a single sentence in the faction description not led by human, stating how they managed to collaborate with NPC (power over monster, mystic skill of finding places that could sustain cities, whatever) and that regardless of level, AI receive various bonuses, increasing as you ladder up the difficulty.

Or admit those findings, put them on the list and fix them. Thank you.

Turns 38-62

Turn 38: Procipinee takes out some Resoln pioneers.

Turn 39: Tenfell: study -> life altar. Procipinee and Alisa keep looking for Resoln's homelands.  
Leadanna head back to New Pariden.

Turn 40: Procipinee starts on the Path of Wind and Woe.  She has no intention of actually doing anything about it for a long, long time, of course.
New Pariden rushes the garden, as not for waste growth, and starts a study.

Turn 41: "Training" -> "Weaponry".  Raven's heart: scrying pool -> study.
Procipinee finds an emeral cap, and spots Ceresa's army, right next to an obsidian golem that could eat it for breakfast.

Turn 42: Tenfell: life altar -> cleric. Ceresa retreats before Alisa's army. Alisa pursues, but does not dare to go near the golem, so she ha to take a wide detout through some hills. Better safe than sorry.

Turn 43: A Shadow warg of Ceresa's approaches Procipinee, so she summons a warg of her own.

Turn 44: Ceresa brings her army and links up with the warg and some militia.  This is probably all she has. Procipinee retreats, Alisa advances. The two heroines trade items.
Leadanna goes off exploring Northwest of Tenfell, looking for Yithril's holdings. She notices that
Verga is building troops.

Turn 45: Ceresa seems to have two shadow wargs. Strange. In any case, one is leading an army right by an obsidian golem and a slag, while the other is with Ceresa. Procipinee and Alisa link up, and approach Ceresa's army.  By doing so, they notice the Resoln border.  This war may be brough to a swift end.

Turn 46: Blackstead: bell tower->town hall.  Ceresa does not attack. Procipinee does.
The two wargs engage in the middle of the battlefield.  Procipinee hastes the skath. The skath one-shots Ceresa.  Ceresa's panca archers one-shot Procipinee's warg. The golem engaged Ceresa's warg. The Resoln champion Skuzu berserks. The skath engages the archers.  Procipinee hastes Alisa. The archers shoot at the golem.  The golem kills the warg. Procipinee cast "Slow" at the archers, it doesn't stick. The skath keeps missing the archers. Alisa goes around Skuzu and attacks the archers with more luck than the skath. The archers get the golem down to 2hps. Alisa kills the archers, and Skuzu is no match for her and the skath.
I realize that I have missed when Raven's Heart completed the scrying pool. I belatedly cast"Enchanted hammers" on it.  Ah, well.  In any case, it's now working on a study.  I must have queued two buildings, and missed the notification.

Turn 47: Tenfell: cleric->pier. New Pariden: study->well.
The second Resoln army makes it way past the obsidian golem and the slag towards Blackstead.  Procipinee folows, but has to go around the monsters.  No worries, if she can't catch up, there's always "Freeze".
Alisa presses toward the Resoln dominion.

Turn 48: A Resoln young burning wraith is chasing Procipinee.  She summons another shadow warg.
Leadanna find a nice spot with four resources, but "Arcane monolith" costs too much, and I may need the mana to guard Blackstead. I insert a pioneer in front of the pier in Tenfell's queue.

Turn 49: Raven's Heart: study->monument.

Turn 50: "Weaponry"->"Mining"  The Resoln army led by the shadow warg is approaching Blackstead.  Procipinee's warg goes ahead, the queen will have to take her chances against the wraith.  She equips a battleaxe, to minimise the damage from the wraith's fireshield (The fewer hits that she needs to kill it, the fewer times she'll get burned)
Actually, Alisa is in range of Hagdust, so Procipinee and warg just turn around and kill the wraith. Procipinee chooses the Path of the Mage.
We ask Ceresa to surrender, she refuses, and Alisa attacks.
There is an assassin demon defending the city.  I should have checked for this.  In any case, the skath chomps it for 28, so it's barely hanging on its life.  The golem engages the militia.  Alisa hits the burning wraith hard enough for it to flee. The city archers are shooting at the golem, and are the only ones doing damage, because Ceresa is too busy casting spells that Alisa resists, and Skuzu berserks himself despite being at Death's door.  The skath kills the demon, the archers, and Ceresa, but not before the archers kill the golem.  
Alisa's armor lets her go head to head with three militias, but the burning wraith I had forgotten about comes back and hits her pretty hard. She still manages to kill it, but she is heavily hurt.  She still manages to avoid fighting more than one militia at the time, and the battle is eventually won.
I could have done this better. In any case, Resoln is gone, and Alisa gets level 8 and "Lethal I"
Hagdust is a conclave, but of course, it will be a long time before the unrest is in any way manageable. I cast "Enchanted hammers" and "Inspiration", and start a bell tower.

Turn 51: New Pariden: well->monument.
Alisa and her skath start exploring North of Hagdust.
Procipinee and her warg head back to the capital.

Turn 52:  Raven's Heart: monument->lumber yard.  Tenfell: pioneer->pier. The pioneer heads toward a resource rich spot discovered by Leadanna Northwest of Tenfell.
Procipinee kills some bandits and gets a pair of leather greaves. Leadanna kills a butcherman. Alisa kills a bear cub.

Turn 53: Contact with Kraxis.  A group of bandits heads towards Raven's Heart. Procipinee kills them.
Alisa loots a Codex of Hosten. Leadanna loots a midnight stone.

Turn 54: New Pariden: monument->iron mine. Tenfell: pier->lumber yard. Procipinee kills some more bandits.

Turn 55: "Mining" -> "Agriculture". Blackstead: town hall->scrying pool. Procipinee loots yet another ice spear.

Turn 56: Alisa kills some bandits and loots a bottle of Quendar wine.

Turn 57: Tenfell frows into a town. New Pariden: iron mine ->inn.  Raven's Heart: lumber yard->bell tower.  
Leadanna gets a fireball scroll, but gets chased by a darkling army and a rock spider army, and has to run.

Turn 58: "Agriculture"->"Construction". Blackstead: scrying pool->pioneer. I cast "Meditation" on Blackstead. Hagudst rushes the bell tower, and starts a town hall.
Procipinee gets attacked by some bears, gets "Air Disciple", and loots a set of throwing knives.
Alisa kills the Wraith hero Drakmir and gets a short sword.

Turn 59: Tenfell finishes the lumber yard, and I queue in the resources from the Northwest outpost: a monument, two shards, and an iron mine.
Alisa kills a bone ogre by having the skath dash in and out, and use deadly bite.  She gets "Trainer III"
Procipinee sells most of her collected loot.

Turn 60: Raven's heart: bell tower->warg's den.
Procipinee kills a crag spawn.

Turn 61: Tenfell: monument->earth altar. Blackstead: pioneer -> workshop. The pioneers head to a 3/2/3 spot discovered by Alisa.

Turn 62: Procipinee starts the "Kidnapers" quest, then heads towards a banished ogre.
Alisa ends the turn next to a nest of Ignys. I watch some Kraxis scouts that are hanging by a bear's army.

From looking at the Yithril and Kraxis champions, I am seeing a pattern. It seems two free traits,"Muscle" and "Strength", are given to all AI heroes, even though they are normally ineligible for "Muscle".

Are you intentionally disregarding the fact that Challenging appears to be cheating on multiple fronts? Despite the fact that both you and the game itself explicitly state it does not. Unimportant issues from the height of an ivory tower I'm sure.

This isn't a matter of whether or not a new player should start on Challenging but rather that, presumably due to a bug, the game is doing things it should not. If you're wrong about Challenging then what faith should we have that the lower difficulties are playing fair? If a player chooses to go up to Challenging they do so knowing what to expect - little good that does if the game is being misleading.

Now it would be entirely different kettle of fish if you chose to acknowledge these issues with something as simple as a "Oh shoot that does look weird! Thanks guys, we'll take a look at it ASAP for 1.01!" Considering you're relying on word of mouth as a means of advertising for this and WoM has such a well deserved negative reputation I'm a bit confused here. Orion's wall of links paints a pretty good picture of how "word of mouth" is looking right about now.

God knows whenever I bring up FE to friends it's almost impossible to make them even listen while they're busy making office harassment jokes, wonky diplomacy and cheating AI really isn't helping the sales pitch here =/

Dear Alent,

maybe this game is the most sophisticated random number generator ever done, so sophisticated that it makes fun.

Who cares about stringence and such stupid concepts as long as it makes fun ??

kesmai

Let's not all jump the gun here. Tuidjy's test has shown that there are some strange things happening that ought to be looked at. I'm sure that's what Brad's going to do. He stated earlier that the AI doesn't cheat on challenging so if it does, it should be unintentional and therefore should be fixed. Brad probably reacts a bit personal, but let's stop implying that the AI cheats by design on challenging. I'm positive it doesn't do that by design, but there seem to be bugs to iron out. Now let's wait for Brad's reaction after he's looked into it.

@ben

yeah, maybe it´s to early for sarcasm.

kesmai

I hadn't responded to the particulars because I hadn't read them yet.

anything on challenging that the ai does that the human doesn't do would generally be regarded as a bug. 

I can't sey whether easy is too hard but I think I can say that challenging is Seder than easy And therefore one should try to work their way up from there.

I enjoy what you are doing here Tuidjy. You are thoruoghly finding bugs with the AI on challenging difficulty. I think that Brad can learn alot from this presentation of what the AI is doing. Anything that can help improve the game here is always a plus.