Please, for the love of god, nerf starting starbases » Forum Post by The

Starbases aren't OP, especially when you can stack up the Starbase Fortification Modules. So what if my small ships are receiving +90 to all types of defenses?

Edit: To clarify, each ship is getting +15 from Fortification Modules, and then the +1 from the military ring.

http://imgur.com/a/nyXYL

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I dunno, I kinda like how starbases are pretty damn powerful now. Now granted, with the new low damage output of ships, they should be adjusted to maybe 2/2/2 offense and 2/2/2 defense now or something., or at least have drone/tiny fighters to defend them. I like the idea of starbases to actually take a beating before being destroyed.

I always like to think of Starbases like Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. When the Cardassians had it, it was riddled with weapons and took a bunch of ships to take it down.

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Publius of NV

Join Date 08/2002

+231

If the kinetic miniaturization tech is really bugging you, check out the Crusade day 1 mod that fixes it.

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If defending ships still run up and die by themselves(haven't had a starbase attacked yet) then I don't see a problem with starbase strength eclipsing early fleet strength, because you can't actually bolster their defense. Clearly, all is not balanced, but nothing wrong with a static military installation wiping the floor with a small fleet.

They were tissue paper, it was embarrassing how easy it was to drop a static object, it added a great deal to the mediocrity of the game by having to constantly replace the stupid things every time some random ship bothered to remove one even though you spent 20 constructor modules in an attempt to make it not be a free kill. They could probably use an initial defense addition or two and start out with substantially less stats so you actually have to spend some money to make them invincible, but it's not like they're actually invincible.

Throw a flagship and an admiral in the mix and you can knock one down pretty easy with early weapons and defenses and that first logistics upgrade.

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neilkaz

Join Date 06/2011

+9

And while you're at it, please make Shipyards easier to destroy or have them and starbases go away when you totally conquer an AI.

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Quoting psychoak,

reply 4

If defending ships still run up and die by themselves(haven't had a starbase attacked yet) then I don't see a problem with starbase strength eclipsing early fleet strength, because you can't actually bolster their defense. Clearly, all is not balanced, but nothing wrong with a static military installation wiping the floor with a small fleet.

They were tissue paper, it was embarrassing how easy it was to drop a static object, it added a great deal to the mediocrity of the game by having to constantly replace the stupid things every time some random ship bothered to remove one even though you spent 20 constructor modules in an attempt to make it not be a free kill. They could probably use an initial defense addition or two and start out with substantially less stats so you actually have to spend some money to make them invincible, but it's not like they're actually invincible.

Throw a flagship and an admiral in the mix and you can knock one down pretty easy with early weapons and defenses and that first logistics upgrade.

Second this. It is embarrassment how Starbase, a big static object, bigger than capital ship is less armed and armored, easily knockdown by a few random hooligan of tiny ship. Now it is something to be reckon with. Although i feel like unupgrade or low tier Starbase should be knock down in their firepower and defense. Military starbase should be the one tough nut to crack. Economic starbase shouldn't be on the same level of lethal as Military one.

Quoting neilkaz,

reply 5

And while you're at it, please make Shipyards easier to destroy or have them and starbases go away when you totally conquer an AI.

This should be an option you can choose before starting a game. I don't mind cleaning up the mess since i imagine them as remnant resistance that still fighting on even their entire government dissolved.

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I wouldn't restrict the economic ones from them, after all those military buffs apply to stationed ships and make an actual point of nigh impenetrable defense.

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BIF

Join Date 09/2008

+7

Why do we have to destroy ANYTHING left by a prior civilization? If I kill or capture all of their beings, then aside from the occasional automaton still programmed to attack me, I should be able to capture and commandeer my vanquished enemy's old tech. Give me an option to repaint their facilities in my culture's colors, but I'm all FOR recycling!

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Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001

+2411

Quoting BIF,

reply 8

Why do we have to destroy ANYTHING left by a prior civilization? If I kill or capture all of their beings, then aside from the occasional automaton still programmed to attack me, I should be able to capture and commandeer my vanquished enemy's old tech. Give me an option to repaint their facilities in my culture's colors, but I'm all FOR recycling!

I've been trying to destroy the pyramids for years. And I'm the bad guy??

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Quoting Frogboy,

reply 9

Quoting BIF,

reply 8

Why do we have to destroy ANYTHING left by a prior civilization? If I kill or capture all of their beings, then aside from the occasional automaton still programmed to attack me, I should be able to capture and commandeer my vanquished enemy's old tech. Give me an option to repaint their facilities in my culture's colors, but I'm all FOR recycling!

I've been trying to destroy the pyramids for years. And I'm the bad guy??

Holy heck. This made me choked on my rice.

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Quoting psychoak,

reply 4

Clearly, all is not balanced, but nothing wrong with a static military installation wiping the floor with a small fleet.

They were tissue paper, it was embarrassing how easy it was to drop a static object

1. Not every starbase is a military installation. The base stats of any starbase guarantee that you will not take it out for the next, oh, 100 turns at least.

2. That's the second part of the problem. Once you have a tool capable of defeating a starbase, you can take out any starbase. The scaling on additional modules for weapons and defenses is pitiful.

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GalCivius

Join Date 11/2010

+12

Re "leftover" Starbases, Shipyards from defeated civs:

What about turning *some* of them randomly into space junk? They could have self-destructed when facing defeat...

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Quoting The_Regicide,

reply 11

1. Not every starbase is a military installation. The base stats of any starbase guarantee that you will not take it out for the next, oh, 100 turns at least.

2. That's the second part of the problem. Once you have a tool capable of defeating a starbase, you can take out any starbase. The scaling on additional modules for weapons and defenses is pitiful.

I think there is some truth to this.

IMHO, the starter starbases should be slightly nerfed, and the scaling should be better.

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I would also argue in favor of slightly nerfing starter starbases and possibly shipyards.

The way they are now, I can provoke the AI into a very early war, by claiming their ressources and there is nothing they can do about it. I also have a safe harbour for the fleet I have only just begun building. It turns the problem of not having a fleet early into a non-issue.

I kind of see a potential problem with administrators there if they are to easy to lose though.

That's why I think the second point is important, too and the defensive upgrades should be more potent and actually make it stronger than it was in vanilla.

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I am also in favor of weaker starting bases with better scaling.

i get the argument that a static base shouldn't be easy to kill. The counter argument is that your only paying for the cost of a constructor which can now take a fleet costing much more production and especially precious resources.

Further, it imbalances the early rush. You can snag enemy resources and hold on to them for a very long time...and then use those resources ton hold a fleet your enemy can't match.

so I would offer the starbase some initial defense improvements that cost resources. If a player invests in a starbase it should absolutely be a beast to kill. But it should be a bit harder than "plop a constructor, own that resource for half the game"

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If a player wants to keep his starbase against a determined attack in 2242 or 2243, they should EXPEND RESOURCES TO MAKE IT SO, is what I'm saying.

Furthermore, if a player wants to keep his starbase against ANY SCOUT SHIP 2244 and afterwards, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

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Just so we're all on the same page here...

Vanilla Starbase 200HP (250SY)	Starbase Defense Systems	Advanced Starbase Defenses	Tech Tier One	Tech Tier Two	Tech Tier Three	Tech Tier Four	Tech Tier Five
6/8/5 attacks	+2 each attack	+4 each attack	+2 one	+4 one	+8 one	+16 one	+32 one
Initial Constructor	100 Cr 1 Durantium 1 Elerium 1 Antimatter Constructor	200 Cr 2 Durantium 2 Elerium 2 Antimatter Constructor	50 Cr 1 Material Constructor	100 Cr 2 Material Constructor	200 Cr 3 Material Constructor	350 Cr 4 Material Constructor	500 Cr 5 Material Constructor
10 each defense			+4 one	+8 one	+16 one	+32 one
Initial Constructor			50 Cr 1 Material Constructor	100 Cr 2 Material Constructor	200 Cr 3 Material Constructor	350 Cr 4 Material Constructor

Note how the starter starbase is stronger than anything anyone can field for the first year. And note how the HP never ever changes.

Also note how at about Tech Tier One, scaling becomes pitiful, expensive, non-stacking, and the price becomes hilarious, especially in Credits.

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1. Not every starbase is a military installation. The base stats of any starbase guarantee that you will not take it out for the next, oh, 100 turns at least.

2. That's the second part of the problem. Once you have a tool capable of defeating a starbase, you can take out any starbase. The scaling on additional modules for weapons and defenses is pitiful.

Not real sure why you snipped out a portion of my post and then fed me a reply that wasn't in disagreement with anything I said, but hey, whatever floats your boat. I think you're being a bit generous with your estimates though, by turn 150 or so, you should be able to pump out 8-10 damage ships in a couple turns and drop starbases left and right in a single go. Guarantee is a bit strong, perhaps if you said without casualties.

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I quoted a part that I specifically responded to. I don't need to disagree to reply (but I do disagree that any starbase is a military installation).

And yes, I meant "with such casualties that you can reliably do it without breaking your bank". Otherwise, you can send veritable trains of Tiny Missile ships at a starbase. Eventually it will die.

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