Iron Ore versus Crystal Crag

GFireflyE

Join Date 05/2011

+63

Iron Ore versus Crystal Crag

Good Morning

So, I'm currently looking into why there is SO MUCH iron ore available in the game....but I'm not quite sure what I'm looking at.

Here are the two resource types from the coreworldreasrouces.xml.

    <ResourceType InternalName="Resource_IronOre">
        <DisplayName>Iron Ore</DisplayName>
        <Type>IronOre</Type>
        <Description>Build a Mine here to produce Metal.</Description>
        <LongDescription>The ground here has been ripped asunder by the cataclysm; rubble is strewn everywhere, some of it rock shot through with veins of reddish and purple stone. This is iron ore in its raw form. Build a mine here, and extract it to forge powerful weapons and armor. </LongDescription>
        <BarredTerrain>River</BarredTerrain>
        <BarredTerrain>HillsTerrain</BarredTerrain>
        <PreferredTerrain>Category:Land</PreferredTerrain>
        <MinPerPlayer>2</MinPerPlayer>
        <Rarity>300</Rarity>
        <NeedsToBeUnlocked>0</NeedsToBeUnlocked>
        <HarvestType>Mining</HarvestType>
        <Production>1</Production>
        <Worth>5</Worth>
        <Global>0</Global>
        <Stored>0</Stored>
        <RummagedPerTurn>0.75</RummagedPerTurn>
        <OnSelectSFX>Click_Iron_Mine</OnSelectSFX>
        <GameModifier>
            <ModType>Resource</ModType>
            <Attribute>TileYieldMaterials</Attribute>
            <Value>6</Value>
            <PerTurn>1</PerTurn>
        </GameModifier>
        <AIData AIPersonality="AI_General">
            <AIPriority>3</AIPriority>
        </AIData>
        <Medallions InternalName="">
            <All>Res_Ores_Plains.png</All>
        </Medallions>
        <Icon>Resource_IronOre.png</Icon>
        <IconColor>0,0,0</IconColor>
        <ClothIcon>Resource_IronOre.png</ClothIcon>
        <TileDesign>R_Iron_Ore_01</TileDesign>
        <TileDesignForTerrain>DesertTerrain:R_Lombard_Iron_01</TileDesignForTerrain>
        <TileDesignForTerrain>Imperium:R_Iron_oar_Imperium_01</TileDesignForTerrain>
        <TileDesignForTerrain>Scrapyard:R_Scrapyard_Iron_01</TileDesignForTerrain>
        <ModelColor>0,0,0</ModelColor>
    </ResourceType>

    <ResourceType InternalName="Resource_CrystalCrag">
        <DisplayName>Crystal Crag</DisplayName>
        <Type>Crystal</Type>
        <Description>Build a Crystal Foundry here to produce Crystal.</Description>
        <LongDescription>An outcropping of glittering stones dots the hillside here. These are crystals and rocks which are said to contain the primal, magical essence of Elemental itself.</LongDescription>
        <BarredTerrain>River</BarredTerrain>
        <BarredTerrain>HillsTerrain</BarredTerrain>
        <PreferredTerrain>Category:Land</PreferredTerrain>
        <MinPerPlayer>1</MinPerPlayer>
        <Rarity>300</Rarity>
        <NeedsToBeUnlocked>0</NeedsToBeUnlocked>
        <HarvestType>Mining</HarvestType>
        <Production>1</Production>
        <Worth>5</Worth>
        <Global>0</Global>
        <OnSelectSFX>Click_Crystal_Rubble</OnSelectSFX>
        <GameModifier>
            <ModType>Resource</ModType>
            <Attribute>TileYieldEssence</Attribute>
            <Value>5</Value>
            <PerTurn>1</PerTurn>
        </GameModifier>
        <AIData AIPersonality="AI_General">
            <AIPriority>3</AIPriority>
            <AITag>Crystal</AITag>
        </AIData>
        <Medallions InternalName="">
            <All>Crystals.png</All>
        </Medallions>
        <Icon>Resource_CrystalCrag.png</Icon>
        <IconColor>0,0,0</IconColor>
        <ClothIcon>Resource_CrystalCrag.png</ClothIcon>
        <TileDesign>R_Crystal_Crag_01</TileDesign>
        <TileDesignForTerrain>CurgensTomb:R_Curgens_Crystals_01</TileDesignForTerrain>
        <TileDesignForTerrain>DesertTerrain:R_Lombard_Crystals_01</TileDesignForTerrain>
        <ModelColor>0,0,0</ModelColor>
    </ResourceType>

Now, it would appear that three things stick out:

First, despite both Iron Ore and Crystal Crag have a rarity of 300, there seems to be way more of the former compared to the later...
Second, Iron Ore has a MinPerPlayer of 2 whereas Crystal Crag has a MinPerPlayer of 1. I do not know what this refers to...
Third, Iron Ore has an additional line of RummagedPerTurn of 0.75. Crystal Crag has no such line. I do not know what this refers to...

At first I was thinking that I could just decrease the rarity, but in seeing that the rarity of these two items are the same, yet there is less Crystal to mine than Iron....I'm not certain if reducing this value is the correct coarse of action.

More like, I would like to slighly decrease the base amount that is mined...

Comments? Thoughts?

ps. I'm going to also toss this in here: I've noticed several resources have odd rarities and am wondering as to why:

- The Flooded Graveyard has a rarity value of -1 ?
- The recruiting resources, Wild Dragons, Knights of Asok, etc, all have a rarity value of 0 ?

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You might to be careful on changing the initial mine or it might impact the early game too much

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Quoting Stalker0,

reply 26

You might to be careful on changing the initial mine or it might impact the early game too much

I could just have initial mines without upgrading...and I swimming in molten metal. Couldn't spend it fast enough....and I was playing Gilden.

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Another update:

Here are the changes that I have been playing with:

Added a 5 metal production cost to the Smelter Improvement
Added a 10 metal production cost to the Foundry Improvement
Added a 15 metal production cost to the Large Foundry Improvement (from Parrotmath's Wondersbase Mod)
Added a 20 metal production cost to the Ironworks World Achievement
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Iron Mine Improvement collect from 1 to 0.5
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Smelter Improvement collect from 2 to 1
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Foundry Improvement collect from 3 to 2
Reduced the Rarity of Iron Ore from 300 to 250
Reduced the Rarity of Crystal Craf from 300 to 250
Note that the reduction that SD made to the Ironworks in 1.2 changelog is still in effect; collecting at +6 per turn instead of the original +8

Of late I have been playing a fair bit of Gilden thinking that they require a lot of Metal compared to other factions. I have noticed that Gilden does seem to get more Iron Ore deposits near its starting location compared to other factions....not sure if that's simply coicidence or if that coded into Gilden's faction....but that's beside the point.

Results are in on my recommended changes. I may have gone a TAD too far the other way now. Just a TAD mind you. I tend to have a float of about 30-70 metal at any given time which makes it challenging to build designed troops that require metal fairly consistently. Often I've been having to settle for 2-3 troops of metal variety and then the rest non-metal until I build up my supply again. I currently generate 4.5 metal per turn (1 Iron Mines, 2 Smelters, 1 Foundry). It's entirely possible that, HAD I focused more on metal generation, I wouldn't be in this scarcity concern BUT I've not really had the chance to dedicate queue time to that end. It's been quite the game with monster's roaming at my city! Deadly Encounters to boot!

Again, please keep in mind that I play with my catapults mod and have built 4 catapults so far in my game....so that another 20 metal consumed that normally wouldn't have been.

Therefore, IF a change were to be made to the above, it would be the following:

Added a 5 metal production cost to the Smelter Improvement
** Added a 5 metal production cost to the Foundry Improvement
** Added a 5 metal production cost to the Large Foundry Improvement (from Parrotmath's Wondersbase Mod)
** Added a 5 metal production cost to the Ironworks World Achievement
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Iron Mine Improvement collect from 1 to 0.5
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Smelter Improvement collect from 2 to 1
Reduced the amount of metal per turn the Foundry Improvement collect from 3 to 2
Reduced the Rarity of Iron Ore from 300 to 250
Reduced the Rarity of Crystal Craf from 300 to 250
Note that the reduction that SD made to the Ironworks in 1.2 changelog is still in effect; collecting at +6 per turn instead of the original +8

This change would have saved me 20 metal in my current game...but I can see the logic in having a cumulative linear metal construction cost to the resource improvements....thus, the Foundry does cost 10 metal....just that the initial 5 metal was already invested into the previous improvment.

I think this change will generate the ability to upgrade those Iron Mines just that TAD easier and the result will be a steady supply of metal to just cover adequately 1-3 armies of metal augmented troops without having your supply run away rampantly.

Additionally....not sure how the diplomacy actually works, but I'm still seeing that other factions do not give any weight to the metal resource. Is this hardcoded into them????

I'll continue to test out this balance in the hopes that SD incorporates the changes into the base game for all to enjoy...

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It's been awhile, but just to recap; I've been playing many games since the last update and have really found the changes introduced to be an improvement in balance of crystal and iron ore.

Rehashed in the hopes the SD will look at the balance recommendations and possibly make the changes into the base game for all to enjoy.

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I'm thinking of creating some heavy plate set to be very high in metal costs. They reduced the max iron from 8 to 6 as well if I am not mistaken. Some more items is really what we need, especially trinkets that cost iron instead of crystal.

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Quoting GFireflyE,

reply 28

Of late I have been playing a fair bit of Gilden thinking that they require a lot of Metal compared to other factions.

Guilden may not be the best faction to test this with because of its Master Smith trait, which removes 50% of all metal costs!

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Quoting _Flector_,

reply 31

Quoting GFireflyE,
reply 28
Of late I have been playing a fair bit of Gilden thinking that they require a lot of Metal compared to other factions.

Guilden may not be the best faction to test this with because of its Master Smith trait, which removes 50% of all metal costs!

True dat.

I have been testing with other factions as well....it's been awhile since i posted in this thread....and have found that the lesser dependancy on metal by the more magic oriented factions still brings a decent balance to the aquisition of metal....forcing the playing to carefully consider where to spend his metal resource.

Obviously, one thing that I have not addressed with all this testing, is that with the increased scarecity of the iron ore, the AI should be weighting it's value differently in the diplomancy. I have done none of that.

Hopefully SD will address this in their 1.4 patch....as diplomacy gets it's revamp...

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