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Balance: A look at Gold

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Tasunke
Tasunke
Join Date 10/2009
+45
Reply #26 February 24, 2012 6:09:58 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

And I'd prefer having at least 1 10% gold improvement at the tier 1 Civ techs (or maybe tier 2 ... as is, at tier 2 all you have is a 10% gold via tech and thats all)

most gold producing buildings seem to be "City upgrades" now ... I'd like at least one that you can build normally.

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Tasunke
Malsqueek
Join Date 09/2009
+38
Reply #27 February 25, 2012 1:06:15 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I have to say, perhaps I'm doing it wrong, but pretty much all of the games I have played since the FE beta started have either had me restarting because my position sucked horribly (no more than 6 "working" tiles on any placement within 5 turns of start), or have seen my attempt at growth stymied by two nearby competitors who essentially walled me in with their ZoC, and let my cities choke.

 

Without the capacity to build many cities to get lots of population, I really haven't figured out how to get the kind of income that allows you to go on the offensive using units (this includes teching up to Economics). I can reliably build two to three cities and man the gates, but trying to make a push outward seems to plunge my economy into prehistoric times.

 

I'm sure a large portion of it is user error on my part, but the way in which you are earning and spending your money feels REALLY opaque, and if you do want to do something about raising your income when you are walled into a corner the options really do feel like jacking up the taxes, running for the nearest economic tech, and hoping to god that you dont get savagely molested by your neighbors during the 70 turns it takes to get there and deploy the building.

 

Additionally, I'm going to parrot what has already been said in this thread by others, and by myself since WoM Beta... Dead Queues are Wasted Production. Period. You did us a great service by combining military and civic queue in a psychological aspect. Please, please, PLEASE Let us turn 10% of our production into gold as a persistent (or perhaps early civ tech option), or 10% of our production into "excess food" to help bump growth for cities with slender resources.

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Tasunke
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #28 February 25, 2012 1:15:00 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Push control+N to reset start and try again. 

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Tasunke
Mistwraithe
Join Date 05/2003
+20
Reply #29 February 25, 2012 5:23:26 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I despise the weird two tier economy that FE has (and WoM had). It is crazy to me that cities produce so little compared to the value of champion equipment and loot.

Don't get me wrong, I think it is cool that loot is worthwhile. But something a bit closer to the balance MoM had would be good so that you at least THOUGHT about the possibility of having taxes above 0%. Right now a lair is worth so much more than your empire can possibly produce that you don't bother.

And that's before I even talk about immersion. Why does a bandit lair have a hundred times the economic output of my capital just lying around? Similarly how on earth are magic items worth so much gold, how does the 'shop' have the spare money to pay 480 gold for a magic bow when an entire city being taxed into the ground produces 3 gold?

It ruins immersion and removes choices (ie you are forced to go hunting for loot and you are strongly pushed towards a 0% tax rate for quite a while). Rethink it please.

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Tasunke
Horemheb
Join Date 03/2006
+4
Reply #30 February 25, 2012 5:58:34 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree that it is too easy to gain gold by looting, especially in the early game. This makes luck the determining factor in the game: if you happen to get lucky and find one of those 1000+g items early you are in a good position, if not you will be left behind. Effective exploration and looting is the way to victory currently.

Valuable loot must be guarded. The more valuable it is, the heavier it must be guarded. And not by stupid monsters you can lure away from the loot. I think goodie huts should be guarded by static monsters, and wandering monster should carry their items with them. The guards might produce wandering monsters once in a while, but the produced monsters should be weaker than the original guards. Currently this seems to be reversed...

There could be some goodie huts around, but the items you get from them should be at most 100g in value.

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Tasunke
bpalczewski
Join Date 05/2010
+8
Reply #31 February 25, 2012 8:42:13 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yea, i agree - my major income comes from selling poisoned knives ... 

It is something absurd, that 10 cities with like 2000 population total can net around 10 guildar profit per turn (i dont have any defensive armies) and it takes them 130 turns to earn money for one knife ... 

 

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Tasunke
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #32 February 25, 2012 8:47:08 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree that the costs of items, and the sell values , are still too high.

 

 

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Tasunke
ddd888
Join Date 04/2009
+7
Reply #33 February 25, 2012 9:27:53 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

i think its fine tbh

its not like you research new armors and then buy them all in 1 turn

 

otherwise money would be meaningless

also dont forget you sell old stuff

 

so in the end i think its perfect for now, you resarch, then buy few upgrades but cant afford them all

 

 

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Tasunke
Tasunke
Join Date 10/2009
+45
Reply #34 February 26, 2012 5:52:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

haven't tried 0.86 yet, but as of 0.85 I don't really mind the cost of Items I suppose ....

However, economies should possibly be more flexible, more unique, more entertaining.

 

Give a national building (fairly cheap) that allows for +5 growth in one city.

Give a national building at tier 2 of Civ tech tree that provides +1 grain.

 

As units grow, give us choices about Research vs Production ... maybe a building that gives -20% production and +40% research versus a building that gives -20% research and +40% production.

Maybe give us a building which decreases the Maintenance cost of newly built units?

(Mass Wave tactics should be the one ... and perhaps the only advantage of horizontal growth)-> other than the inherent bonus of having more population.

 

It should be possible to focus on one city and make that city get to size 4 or 5 rather quickly, while the rest of the empire is only at size 1 or size 2.

Maybe a national building or spell which increases one City's grain by 2 or 3, and reduces the grain of all other (owned) cities by 1?

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Tasunke
CdrRogdan
Join Date 04/2009
+23
Reply #35 February 26, 2012 6:19:22 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting bpalczewski,
reply 31
Yea, i agree - my major income comes from selling poisoned knives ... 

It is something absurd, that 10 cities with like 2000 population total can net around 10 guildar profit per turn (i dont have any defensive armies) and it takes them 130 turns to earn money for one knife ... 

 

 

..... Thats a bit of an exaggeration. Late game income isn't really a problem. It's early game income that stifles growth and warfare. Some base income for the empire would help solve this I think.

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