Raiding Strategies

from Sins Forums

Quoting Darvin3, reply 13

So passive-aggressive pressure game?  Yeah, that's totally different.  Novaliths can definitely be used as a coup-de-grace in that case, but there are lots of great tools at your disposal for achieving the same thing.  Knocking on their door with a force of 20 light carriers all loaded with bombers would be just as devastating.
End of Darvin3's quote

A post over on the topic that went from talking about novaliths to turtling (or passive-aggressive pressure as Darvin elequently put it) got me to thinking..

What is the typical make up of a raiding force? I suppose this really varies depending on which stage of the game, so instead of asking for a particular raiding force group, I was curious about what ships are good to send in raiding party. It's already been established the effectiveness of light carriers as used for raiding forces. There ability to stay on the edges of the gravity well away from enemy forces (on this note, I'm curious what ships can catch up to them?) and when a sufficently large counter-force arrives in system, high tail it out to friendly territory. I actually have a few questions on this subject, so I'll ennumerate them so we can keep it organized:

1. I was wondering about a few other ships and if you would send them in a raiding force? I was wondering about a group of Anti-Structure Cruisers to go in and take out production and resource facilities. I dont know about their speed, and I'm sure they don't have much in the survivability, but from what I understand they could do a lot of damage real quick. Does with the Subjugator or Ogrov have an advantage in this area?

2. Do you send in any support ships to protect a raiding force? 20 Light Carriers seems to be a lot of resources to not back up in some sort of way. The obvious choice would be Flak Frigates so you can invest to protect your carriers from enemy bombers and maybe some defensive cruisers to protect them. While it may seem like a no brainer, it would seem that the more resources you put to your raiding force, the weaker your main fleet is. And considering the role of the raiding force is to hit and run, just how much support do you give to such a force?

3. Any good Caps from any of the three races that lend themselves effectively to supporting raiding forces? Sort of along the lines of of question #2, a Cap ship you send off to support a raiding force won't be supporting your main fleet. In addition, I would think this would leave the Cap ship in question to retribution. That all being said, I was thinking of ships like the Akkan could go with some Ogrovs in and with the enhanced range from the Akkan, allow them to stay at the edge of the gravity well. That and with Armistice, it a fleet pops in that catches you off-guard, you can always use the ability and get your raiding force to safety.

Love to hear your thoughts on the subject as always, and thanks to all who respond.

strategy
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Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top

1. I was wondering about a few other ships and if you would send them in a raiding force? I was wondering about a group of Anti-Structure Cruisers to go in and take out production and resource facilities. I dont know about their speed, and I'm sure they don't have much in the survivability, but from what I understand they could do a lot of damage real quick. Does with the Subjugator or Ogrov have an advantage in this area?
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This can work, but bombers in light carriers are prefered because they can rejoin your main battle fleet after the raid. Ogrovs are useless for defending or in antiship battles, so be careful about dedicating too much fleet supply to them. When they do work they work brilliantly though.

2. Do you send in any support ships to protect a raiding force? 20 Light Carriers seems to be a lot of resources to not back up in some sort of way. The obvious choice would be Flak Frigates so you can invest to protect your carriers from enemy bombers and maybe some defensive cruisers to protect them. While it may seem like a no brainer, it would seem that the more resources you put to your raiding force, the weaker your main fleet is. And considering the role of the raiding force is to hit and run, just how much support do you give to such a force?
End of quote

Don't really need any with carriers. If you use antistructure ships flak and repair cruisers can be a good idea.

Any good Caps from any of the three races that lend themselves effectively to supporting raiding forces? Sort of along the lines of of question #2, a Cap ship you send off to support a raiding force won't be supporting your main fleet. In addition, I would think this would leave the Cap ship in question to retribution. That all being said, I was thinking of ships like the Akkan could go with some Ogrovs in and with the enhanced range from the Akkan, allow them to stay at the edge of the gravity well. That and with Armistice, it a fleet pops in that catches you off-guard, you can always use the ability and get your raiding force to safety.
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The Akkan (targeting uplink), Sova (embargo), Rapture (battle meditation) and maybe the Desolator (bombardment platforms) are the only cap ships that could both really support a raiding group and actually get built. The Marauder is also good for this but you really should never build one in the first place.

That said, you're right that you should only send them in if you really have nothing else to use them for, as they are usually better in your main fleet (though raiding can be a good source of XP in the rare situation you have your enemy completely pinned but they can't help you finish him any faster).

Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
The Akkan (targeting uplink), Sova (embargo), Rapture (battle meditation) and maybe the Desolator (bombardment platforms) are the only cap ships that could both really support a raiding group and actually get built. The Marauder is also good for this but you really should never build one in the first place.
End of GoaFan77's quote

I like the idea of using Sova, since it seems like it loses a lot of luster as the game progresses to mid and late game. However, by that point you may only make a pinprick in the oposing player's economy. The exception would be after a significant engagement where you managed to take out a signicant part of their fleet and their trying to reconstitute it.

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 1
This can work, but bombers in light carriers are prefered because they can rejoin your main battle fleet after the raid. Ogrovs are useless for defending or in antiship battles, so be careful about dedicating too much fleet supply to them. When they do work they work brilliantly though.
End of GoaFan77's quote

What would be the minimum ammount of light carriers that you would send on a raiding force, where you could do some real damage in a short time without also diverting to many resources away from your main fleet. In other words, what's a good balance?

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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Whisker_Fish, reply 2
I like the idea of using Sova, since it seems like it loses a lot of luster as the game progresses to mid and late game.
End of Whisker_Fish's quote

Sova's are never terrible, all the carrier caps in general are actually pretty competitive at mid levels just by the number of squadrons they carry (especially as they don't need antimatter to replace loses). But yes, if you get a Sova early on for an embargo rush that doesn't work out, later this can be a good way to get something out of Embargo. Also the big advantage the Sova and Rapture have is that they can use their abilities from the edge of the gravity well with your light carriers, making this a very low risk tactic.

Quoting Whisker_Fish, reply 2
What would be the minimum ammount of light carriers that you would send on a raiding force, where you could do some real damage in a short time without also diverting to many resources away from your main fleet. In other words, what's a good balance?
End of Whisker_Fish's quote

Hard to say, it really depends if they have hangar defenses in the gravity well. 10-20 bombers squads can pop structures really quick unopposed, but that is 70-140 fleet supply you could use elsewhere. Really "balance" is where most the skill in this game comes from, and the perfect amount is going to vary in every situation.

Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top

TEC scouts with bombs works well.

Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

Orgovs with a support fleet of flak frigates and hoshis is a great raiding force. The frigates move fast enough to run when any serious force arrives but can do some serious hurt on emeny logistic structures.

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top

Quoting Rovert10, reply 5
Orgovs with a support fleet of flak frigates and hoshis is a great raiding force. The frigates move fast enough to run when any serious force arrives but can do some serious hurt on emeny logistic structures.
End of Rovert10's quote

 

This fleet will get eaten by Light Frigates which are faster and cheaper to make. Orgovs are too costly and too specialized to be used just for a raiding party. 

Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top

random thought:

I think that siege frigates, anti-module, and possibly vasari minelayers should have an intially low supply/resource cost, but it should increase as you build more until it reaches some 'cap'. This could ensure no big siege fleets (without great cost) instantly destroying systems, but make it affordable to invest in a few for such a 'strike force'.

And with a survivability increase, they could become a staple.