Cart Search
New Topic
Forum Home | Login
We have re-enabled logins for the forums, please be aware that you may need to reset your password or register for an account again while we continue to restore full functionality.
AM_Shark
AM_Shark
Join Date 02/2008
+6

So whats so special about Arcane Towers and Lost Library's now?(1.09n Beta)

November 22, 2010 6:37:01 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Hi Guys and Gals.

So as the title suggest the new changes have creates some FANTASTIC things but it kinda makes arcane towers and Lost library's a wash.

Both Lost Libs and Arcane towers give +5 to there respected resource and take up 4 squares tiles + take 10 pop to sustain.   If I wanted to specialize a city to be arcane (as the image below represents) I really dont need to grab any arcane towers.  I can simply spam building mini arcane towers.  They produce + 1 arcane and take 1 square + 5 Pop.  So do we really want to hunt down arcane towers and libs for +1 more research point and - 1 tile footprint? 

You might argue that the savings in population is the trade off.  Well not really its only cost 25 pop for 5 buildings instead of 10 pop for the one 4 tile footprint arcane tower.  As you can see below the 4 huts provide WELL more than enough for this city to continue building smaller towers.

In this case I don't know if trying to search out these rare resources is worth the trouble and the turns.  The only real resources that we want are Mines/Gold and metal, crystals, and food. (and shards of cores).

Now can I propose a reversal to how it was before the beta patch.  What if Towers and Lost libs provided a % boost to buildings.  The way buildings used to provide the % boost before the beta patch.  Its seems best to just massively spam research buildings if i have the food currently.

I don't want to provide an AI idea what to do in a case like I have stated above because this is a beta.  We would have to see which way it goes.

Thoughts?

 

elemental
Locked Post
Search this post
Advanced Search
Subscription Options
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Gwenio1
Join Date 09/2010
+21
Reply #1 November 22, 2010 6:43:52 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

In the case of Lost Libraries, they might give a +X% chance of a given research being availible. Not sure about Arcane Temples.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Gene1966
Join Date 03/2010
+2
Reply #2 November 22, 2010 8:09:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Intelligent Post Shark!  You make a strong case...  Hope the powers that be will hear...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #3 November 22, 2010 8:33:17 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I made a similar comment in another thread. There's no special feeling attached to finding those resources now that you probably have hundreds of studies/arcane labs running in your cities. It used to be - "WOW, that's a huge bonus and I can really take advantage of that". Now it's - "meh, yay, I suppose".

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
FatNonFree
Join Date 10/2010
+12
Reply #4 November 22, 2010 8:41:06 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

yeah they gotta fix this. Until they do build baby build!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
jecjackal
Join Date 04/2009
+3
Reply #5 November 22, 2010 8:48:12 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I thought all the resource nodes were % multipliers? shows how much i've been paying attention.

 

Yea now that you mention it, I think gold mines would fall into this category of underwhelming as well (although besides spamming pop, i don't think there are +gilder buildings besides a % multiplier).

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Ephafn
Join Date 03/2006
+4
Reply #6 November 22, 2010 9:02:00 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Don't the mini-arcane labs cost 1 gold per turn in maintenance?

That put the arcane towers about as good as the gold mines, as they save you 5 gold per turns in maintenance, which is what the gold mine would produce (before counting any % bonuses). So an arcane tower is more or less equal to a gold mine + 5 arcane labs.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Corbeaubm
Join Date 01/2009
+5
Reply #7 November 22, 2010 9:48:33 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yes, the small buildings do cost maintenance - which adds up massively if you're spamming the small buildings.  There's an additional problem though: population isn't a meaningful restriction.  The (basically free) Beacon of Hope in your capital will completely fulfill your population needs for most of the game, as long as you can build housing to keep it cranking out people.  The stats definitely need tweaking on population in order to make it scarcer.  Perhaps reducing the Beacon of Hope bonus would help.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
ElanaAhova
Join Date 09/2008
+105
Reply #8 November 22, 2010 9:50:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Perhaps allow lost libraries, temples to allow access to specific lines of research that aren't available with the mini research labs?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Althaer
Join Date 02/2007
+1
Reply #9 November 22, 2010 11:23:11 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting ElanaAhova,
reply 8
Perhaps allow lost libraries, temples to allow access to specific lines of research that aren't available with the mini research labs?

 

Or, make the Temples and Libraries more rare.  When you run across one, it either boosts your research percentage by a goodly amount, or once built, it provides a free, random technological breakthrough/Arcane Spell.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #10 November 22, 2010 11:28:55 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I don't think it's possible to make them more rare. Any more rare and they'd be mythological.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Alstein
Join Date 07/2004
+55
Reply #11 November 23, 2010 12:15:23 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Here's an idea: Re-use the creativity trait

 

Arcane Libraries- each one gives a chance of discovering your next spell instantly

Lost Libraries- does this for regular research.

More libraries= more chance.

Gold mines providing more gold- they work as is to me, maybe buff them slightly

 

This would be in addition to current benefits for each library.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #12 November 23, 2010 12:31:40 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Why not just put a 3 building limit on all improvements so we don't see spamming?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Gwenio1
Join Date 09/2010
+21
Reply #13 November 23, 2010 12:40:00 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 12
Why not just put a 3 building limit on all improvements so we don't see spamming?

Because then people will spam cities to amass enough of those buildings.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
MattSan
Join Date 11/2008
+4
Reply #14 November 23, 2010 6:49:09 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think the solution would be:

Arcane Laboratory +1 arcane research -1 gold

Arcane Temple +5 base +50% to all Labs arcane research

eg I have 10 Arcane Labs and 1 Arcane temple.

So I get 10 base (Labs) +5(Temple) +5(Bonus from %) = 20 total

 

If I just have:

1) 10 Labs = 10 research

2) 0 Labs + 1 Temple = 5 research

3) 2 Labs + 1 Temple = 2 + 1 + 5 = 8 Research

 

Gives a nice incentive to get them Arcane Temples.  Same for the Study/Lost Library combo.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Wintersong
Join Date 07/2006
+235
Reply #15 November 23, 2010 7:31:40 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Althaer,
reply 9

Or, make the Temples and Libraries more rare.
More? Libraries are (almost) as rare as horses right now.

Quoting seanw3,
reply 12
Why not just put a 3 building limit on all improvements so we don't see spamming?
Haven't we been there already?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
OsirisDawn
Join Date 09/2004
+30
Reply #16 November 23, 2010 7:42:44 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Heavenfall,
reply 10
I don't think it's possible to make them more rare. Any more rare and they'd be mythological.

Like horses?

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
AM_Shark
Archonsod
Join Date 03/2006
+14
Reply #17 November 23, 2010 9:27:57 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

The 15 population trade off is 15 troops you could be recruiting, or three more buildings you could have. I'd agree they need to do more though, I'd either double the boost or remove the population cost altogether.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time: