Inns as Inter-faction trade facilitation

The more I think about it, the more Inns become central to a living game.   Inn's are the first bastion of civilization to return  to a dead world, and the last to leave. 

Any adventure worth their salt's more then happy enough to bivouac in an open field, but they won't turn down a warm bath and a soft bed either. While dead land can't support a town it can support a single house, defense provided by the adventurers passing through, and food scavenged or bought. 

Taking that into account I proposed the following system where the world has a precivilization network or structure of Inns and a collection of Adventures and Heroes that make their way back and forth across the world which serve to advance the storyline and also promote weapons and armuor trade across national borders.

 

Firstly I am assuming some form of  Monster lairs system is reinstated https://forums.elementalgame.com/394330/page/1/  where spawns come out of, and can 'hide' stronger spawn points that only become visible once the upper level spawn point is cleared / destroyed.

Second I am assuming non recruitable heroes and static Inns https://forums.elementalgame.com/396298 

Thirdly I am assuming https://forums.elementalgame.com/396348 for heroes to have genuine tasks and jobs related to advancing the adventure tech tree amongst other thing.

 

Lone Inns in the wild are not just places to sleep, learn about quests, and eat, they are also marketplaces for trading between adventuring parties.

 

In this proposal Inn's would serve as a type of minor faction, Inn would share a stock of weapons, food, armour, artifacts and global quests as well as each would have a list of hero's who are spending the night, and local quests.

When you enter an Inn you get a popup window asking if you want to trade, sleep(heal like in a town), are seeking quests, or adventures.  Seaking quests and adventures is discussed in https://forums.elementalgame.com/396348, but trade is new.

 

When a hero enters an Inn, everything they are carrying gets added to the Inn's global stock (except food which is assumed spoiled or eaten[unless the mission is to get food]), when they leave they take what they need from the Inn's stock for the mission they are going on, including food (and they won't leave unless they have the supplies they need to complete the missions).
When you choose to trade the Inn looks at it's global supplies and all it's quests and then sets prices based on it' supplies and demand (they change with time). So you may buy from your town a pair of gauntlets for 60 gilder(wow high much, but that may or may not be balanced later) When you get to the Inn they might have a quest requiring defense and not have enough so they would be willing to pay 80 gilder for the gauntlets,  but if you had 2 pairs of them the second might only be worth 50 because they already have enough, and then 30 or even 10.

Also if some other faction has say better swords, and they've chosen to sell those swords to an Inn you would be able to buy them, (but if they are good swords they are probably in High demand by the Inn so will fetch a much higher price then they would in your market if you had the technology to make them yourself.), or if Heroes returned from quests and notable locations with superior equipment that equipment would also be available to purchase at a high price. 

  In this model the Inns would make a small quantity of food each turn, and use that food to complete quests,  or might send out quests to go to towns and trade surplus equipment for food. (you might get one of these caravans from time to time, 'An interstate trader has come to our town offering wears for food and gilder,  Do you care to inspect what's being offered?').   Furthermore each non recruitable adventure would consume Inn food each turn.  At the start Inn food production and Hero food consumption would be close to matched,  but as the world population grows the number of adventures would too (say one adventure per 1000 world pop or so. ) so eventually Inns would become net food consumers (and equipment consumers as adventures go out on failed missions and their equipment gets destroyed or lost). 

 

 

As a last mechanic of Inns. Inns would keep track of who sells to them, and the more you sell to the Inns the more likely the Heroes are going to go adventuring in your lands( and thus the more likely they will awaken nasty and angry things which then go rampaging in your territory.)  So now you have a choice . . . do you use the Inns to create money, which you need, at the risk of the heroes being more active in your lands and causing you grief, or do you ignore them, or do you buy from them (both to get special equipment or higher level equipment if other factions are selling higher level gear) which costs you LOTS of money, but reduces the likelihood of heroes making your life difficult. Note that Inns would not keep really need to keep track of how much money they have, it can be reasonably assumed adventures will spend any surplus on Beer and by-the-hour company, food is the primary item of commerce in the Inn marketplace.   (Any gilder you spend is assumed to have been in the form of food supplies, or assumed that the Inn will turn around and buy food supplies as soon as you leave.).

 

What do you think?   All that has to be done is create one popup screen, and one extra AI that handles non recruitable heros and has a variable storehouse of supplies and a way to ascribe a price to things it has and things it needs.

Worthwhile??

 

Robbie Price

12,375 views 13 replies
Reply #1 Top

How hard would this be to Mod? Would it be possible with the tools that are?

You would need a system of tracking and activating condition based quests, a place to store equipment , and the ability to spawn NPC's with destinations (and the ability to remove or effect tiles when they arrived at a destination).  Of course you would need Inn tiles to remain fixed, and a UI for the Inns.

What else would be needed? and how much of this exists already? 

Reply #2 Top

Off the top of my head ... you don't need to have fully "non recruitable" heroes ... instead you can have heroes with low honor, low loyalty, or both.

For instance, a free-roaming bandit would likely have low honor and low loyalty.

Meanwhile, a Thug might have low honor but high loyalty (looking for the proper nefarious Mafia boss/ Gang to join)

Equally, a Disillusioned legendary soldier could have EXTREMELY high honor, yet little to no loyalty (think Kenshin Himura from Samurai X)

 

Therefore, it would be *possible* to recruit such fellows, yet it would also be dangerous (unless your goals were VERY like-minded).

 

// Honor and Loyalty have a major place in my Three-phase system ... where first you get them to do freelance work for you, and then you may officially join them to your Royal Court.

Low honor people may take your free-lance money/supplies and RUN ... while low loyalty may, if unhappy, start a civil war that tears your nation apart (if you've made them a full member of the court)

So therefore ... low loyalty/high honor may be fine for freelance work ... while low honor/ high loyalty will be a worry up until you fully recruit them. (and the recruitment is only guaranteed to work if your "Nation reputation" corresponds to their alignment)

Reply #3 Top

As far as Inns being a single global resources ... again I'd rather see each Inn be a separate pool, and such Inns could even trade with each other at some level (there could be special "market" resources ... and a good Micro-er could "play the market" to take trade goods from one Inn to the next, etc)

Reply #4 Top

I would agree with each Inn being a separate entity.  My only hope would be that when I sell the worlds first +5 sword that the thought 'oh but my opponent could buy this...' should pass thought my mind. With local resources this becomes ... less ... likely. 

 

In general having each inn have it's own stockpile is more proper and sensible. . . but it seriously slows down some of the effects I was trying to create.

 

My question is other than being able to make more money by having your heroes run back and forth between inns acting as "Elemental: Postal Service" what does the 'resources local to each Inn' add? Ideally Inns would be consuming items, food, and gilder  (as well as generating some of the same resources, especially gilder).  As long as you balance how much profit's being made I don't see a benefit of having a second way to generate money from Inns. 

 

If for the most part transferring goods between Inn's is going to be automated, why make it take extra time?


Robbie Price

Reply #5 Top

Well ... this ties into  Inns having "Inn merchants" ... and the trading system between inns, and cities ...

 

So an NPC champion or Inn merchant could take the +5 sword of awesome from Inn A in your land, to Inn C in your rival's land.

Especially if Inns actively send out their rare items/resources to be sold to the highest bidder (farthest accessible lands)

 

obviously if an Inn Merchant carrying the +5 sword got killed by creature, the sword is added to the creature's "loot"

 

// Inns could also trade with Factions I suppose.

Reply #6 Top

Well, the idea is that each Inn is like a "Clan" ... Inn A *could* in theory decide to go Mafia and "hostile take-over" other Inns.

The faction (of mafia Inn-keepers) would share resources globally ... but separate Inns would (ideally) be separate factions.

 

Why have "postal-service" micro?? Well, its a personal thing: my favorite thing from Mount and Blade and Suikoden was traveling to cities with Trade-goods looking to make a profit.

Reply #7 Top

Fair enough I liked Privateer and other travel and trade games,  I think the engine should be able to do this, but it's not the right kind of task for a Strategy war game.  IMHO it's TOO rpg, micromanagement for a high level strategy game It's hard enough as it is to remember to move all your units and what they are all up to,  add to that 5 or 6 extra heroes who are only really there to trade between Inns. . . .

I would have Inn's send Inn merchants to a town to sell spare equipment. but between themselves . . .


A good compromise might be to have 2 or 3 global Inn AI's.  Each Inn has an allegiance to one of those global AI's  Each Global AI would have a net morality/ disposition. The Look of the Inn would be determined by which ringleader it answered to.

As an extreme you could even have Inn's be captured by other Inn AI's and converted.  but even that might be a bit much.

 

I could see having a Kingdom Inn, A fallen Inn, and a neutral Inn AI, and the Alignment effecting what type of quests it sets and what alignment it has (thus which players it's predisposed to like and hate.)

 

Robbie Price

Reply #8 Top

That seems like a fair middle ground.

Reply #9 Top

Also, how about allowing the Intra-Inn network "micro trade" only for Champions that do "NOT" belong to any faction (so if you go Gandolf, or if you play as a meagre peasant/ any single Champion ... on a smaller level)

 

but Nations are too big to be bothered with such things (thus its disabled for nations, or even the Inn AI factions themselves)

 

of course .. this "free agent" only micro-trade can be enabled later as a separate yet integrated system of the Inns/Champions system.

(and making money from selling loot AND trading can be worked into the Champion AI ... with certain NPCs being better at it/ merchant class, or something)

Reply #10 Top

I have the Adventures being part of the Inn AI,  so the Inns use the adventures to complete quests, Some of those quests are 'trade' quests, where an adventure takes some of the stuff in the Inn and goes someplace to sell the stuff,  that could be a faction, player, or a non allied Inn. When an adventure enters an Inn everything they are carrying is given to the Inn AI. (unless they are visiting to trade).  [this is purely for simplicity and transparencies sake.]

 

Inns thus could trade between each other.   If Stardock implements a total 'lone wolf' sovereign without any towns at all the no kingdom sovereign might also be able to fill this roll. . . but i don't see Lone Wolf sovereigns happening anytime soon.


Reply #11 Top

Heh, I now see why your having them be "non recruitable" NPCs ... because they are a function of the Inn.

 

In your current theory, your "Inn AI" is an organism with several static locations/ waypoints.

This organism uses adventurers as Antibodies to fight monsters and complete quests (the antigens).

 

Personally I'd rather see the Inns as "Cities" on a smaller scale, and these (recruitable) NPCs may interact with an Inn just as it may interact with any of your own cities.

How would an NPC interact with one of your own cities?? you may ask? He finds a rare weapon, he sells it to the store. The weapon is now stored in your "store" at a supply of 1. You may buy it once, and after that its gone. (a simple process).

Now, if you wanted to "as a faction leader" buy the sword directly from the Champion (without him simply selling it to your shop-keeper), then you could do so under negotiations. Because ... hopefully individual champions can be negotiated on similar terms as a Faction Leader.

...

To restate, my biggest goal/ personal desire ... is to see Individual Champion NPCs be their own AI. Now, for simplicity's sake, we could have that AI "Shut Down" once they are fully recruited by a Faction Leader (perhaps to turn back on at a later date).

But, at least for free-agents ... every man is an Island, or in this case, a Faction.   This changes, of course, when free-agents form "parties" with each other, which are alliances. And as an alliance, the whole is spoken for by the "party leader" ... so if you are negotiating with a Party as opposed to a Lone Freelancer, you will only speak with the "Party Leader."

Just like if you were talking with a nation you would only speak with the "Nation Leader."

 

This, I think, is the direction that Adventuring/ Recruitment, etc needs to go ... these micro interactions that are possible, and sometimes necessary, in order to hire an NPC, or even fully recruit them into your nation.

Now ... NPCs don't just spawn from the wild (I think) ... a certain small percentage of your population should leave their homes to seek a life of adventure. Basically, late in the game, the majority of NPCs should spawn FROM YOUR OWN CITIES.

Most of them can simply be ignored, although the rare few that prove themselves may be worth your time. As in, for a dialogue/ negotiation screen to hire them for a mission, or to make a contract with them, or to buy a weapon from them/ sell them a weapon, or to loan them soldiers, or to fully recruit them into your nation.

Managing your "indirect assets" should be a very interesting part of Hero gathering and Adventure Overseeing. As well as Assassin contracts, Mercenary contracts, etc.

Reply #12 Top

(DIfferent Topic)

as to our earlier discussion on 3 Inn AIs ... instead of being fully "kingdom, empire, and neutral" ... instead lets have Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic.

 

As for "why" the distinction ... Chaotic Inns could have organized gambling and Black Market services (like human trafficking, or experienced and willing assassins, or weapons that were banned by the "Ele-Geneva Convention" or w/e)

Neutral Inns could appeal to all ranges of Champions, and thus you could usually find any Champion you need hanging out at a Neutral Inn (if you wait long enough/ check often enough) ... even if say Chaotic Inns (or lawful Inns) reject your presence. They would be more reliable than Chaotic Inns, as far as dealings, but would be less strict than Lawful Inns as far as who they will do service with, etc.

Lawful Inns would likely only offer service for those strictly lawful ... although they would probably provide aid for Refugee camps, etc. If the Chaotic Inns are Thieves and Assassins only, and Neutral allow everyone, then Lawful Inns are Paladins only. They will only fulfill quests related to safety ... or in other words they will protect the weak/innocent, and they will kill the reckless. They will not accept quests based on Greed value. They will also not accept quests by someone of opposite alignment (even if they are safety-only ... peasants of a Chaotic overlord are doomed to not get their help)

 

Chaotic Inns will usually accept all walks of people, although they are dangerous places, usually unreliable in their dealings, and will definitely not speak with those that have built a reputation of upholding lawfulness and destroying Chaotic free-agents. You would usually need an Army to threaten them with in order to make sure your "investments" are well spent.

// this is just a rough draft ... I didn't simplify it to make room for the current limitations of elemental.

Reply #13 Top

as to our earlier discussion on 3 Inn AIs ... instead of being fully "kingdom, empire, and neutral" ... instead lets have Lawful, Neutral, and Chaotic.
End of quote

 

I concur completely with the whole idea.

 

Robbie Price