What happened to Havok? And removing corpses, why?

from Elemental Forums

Well, Havok is in the game (the physics toolkit/thingy/premade-engine/whatever-you-call-it).
And in early vids/screenshots you can see soldiers flying and scattering, physically. B)

So what happened? Is it just left in there now, as a cold relic, or is it actually used somewhere?
I mean, yeah okay, the soldiers DO fly backwards for a split second before they fade away, but thats hardly Havok, its just a pre-canned animation. They dont even interact in any interactive way what so ever, which is the entire point of Havok.

Will it ever be implemented propely? Or never?
When i first heard of the game and that it used Havok, the least i expected was that the soldiers in a group would fly backwards as they die, remaining on the ground.

 

Yeah also, whats the point of removing soldiers when they die? Really, tell me. Because to me it makes no sense.
The reason games remove units on death is to make more room for MORE soldiers.

But...... If the battle starts with 30 visible soldiers, and obviously handles it, why remove them? Why not keep it at 30 visible soldiers the entire battle, leaving their corpses? It's not like there are 100 reinforcements waiting to enter the battle (and your video card memory), they are all there from the beginning anyway, so why remove them before the entire battle is over?

Especially considering that this is a game with locked battles, in the sense that they take place on seperate maps where no new units can enter.
It makes no sense to remove corpses. As it is now it is extremely unsatisfying to see everyone you kill just fade out of existance, leaving no evidence of the carnage taking place. Its basically as if you're just playing with a dice and numbers.

I suspect this is something added as a work-around for the crashes.. But frankly, as more crashbugs and memory leaks gets fixed, these kinda workarounds should be removed.

elemental
13,424 views 18 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

Some of the death animations use Havok ragdolls- for instance, when a mighty wallop sends a unit flying through the air - but otherwise it doesn't seem to be used in the game.  I think they licensed it back when tactical battles were intended to be real-time, which makes sense, but there's really no point to it now.

Reply #2 from Elemental Forums Top

they use havok for their cloth physics.

Star Control: Origins
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

I completely agree with the whole corpse issue. However sadistic/cruel it may sound, I like being able to see the carnage left over after my dragon ally cuts a swath of destruction out of the enemy ranks.

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AlixeniusTheGreat, reply 3
I completely agree with the whole corpse issue. However sadistic/cruel it may sound, I like being able to see the carnage left over after my dragon ally cuts a swath of destruction out of the enemy ranks.
End of AlixeniusTheGreat's quote

Agreed.

Reply #6 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Stmorpheus, reply 2
they use havok for their cloth physics.
End of Stmorpheus's quote

What? Cloth physics? To me it always looks like the cloaks etc always move the exact same stiff way, as if its just part of the animation.
And i dont see the relation between the battles being real-time or turn-based and havok. It doesnt matter if the game is real-time or not, you still watch the same attack / death animations, might as well have bouncing corpses even though its turn-based :P

Reply #8 from Elemental Forums Top

Actually, if i remember its also used for the general animation system.

Reply #9 from Elemental Forums Top

Havok would have a lot more usage if the battles were real time. Also, limitless battles and powerful heroes/creatures are (probably) easier to balance with real time.

By that I mean ... real time (or total war) battles always seem to be more flexible. Huge Monsters, hoardes of small units, powerful heroes ... real time is the current champion of large-scale battles. (and small-scale too, if you count continuous turns a-la Baldurs Gate and Dragon Age)

Reply #10 from Elemental Forums Top

Corpses left behind makes stuff like Resurrection spells and create undead spells much easier to mod. Also abilities where corpses can be eaten for health/essence would be cool.

Reply #11 from Elemental Forums Top

Yea ... I think this should turn into a RALLY FOR PERSISTENT CORPSES!!!!! HUZZAH!

Reply #12 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting Tasunke, reply 9
Havok would have a lot more usage if the battles were real time. Also, limitless battles and powerful heroes/creatures are (probably) easier to balance with real time.

By that I mean ... real time (or total war) battles always seem to be more flexible. Huge Monsters, hoardes of small units, powerful heroes ... real time is the current champion of large-scale battles. (and small-scale too, if you count continuous turns a-la Baldurs Gate and Dragon Age)
End of Tasunke's quote

 

That is actually a very, very cool idea.

Reply #13 from Elemental Forums Top

Quoting AlphaSite, reply 8
Actually, if i remember its also used for the general animation system.
End of AlphaSite's quote

Probably not, because Havok is not used for general animation.  It's a physics engine.

Reply #14 from Elemental Forums Top

I think there should be a poll for A- Real Time, B- Baldurs Gate, and C- turn based

 

and a poll for Tile-based vs Tile-less

and a poll for "taking turns" and We-go

Reply #15 from Elemental Forums Top

I see what you all mean, but again i stand by my view that it doesnt matter if its turn based or not, havok should still have the same visual impact.

I mean the animations themselves, when a unit is attacking or under attack, are the same wether its real-time or not. I guess you could say, its real-time while they attack :P
So there's no reason not to have flying corpses and bouncing bodies just because its turn based, you still have attack animations and death animations, the only difference is that other units dont run around at the same time as those bodies are being thrown back (which further reduces gpu / cpu load, which further makes my point that havok should be active).

Reply #16 from Elemental Forums Top

Heck, I'm mainly in it for a Rally PRO-litter the field with Bodies!!!

Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top

Quoting Mtn_Man, reply 13

Probably not, because Havok is not used for general animation.  It's a physics engine.
End of Mtn_Man's quote

That is what Brad said oh so long ago.  He didn't say 'general' as I recall but he did say it was for the animation system.

Reply #18 from Elemental Forums Top

Let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor, let the bodies hit the floor...

It would be quite the effort to keep track of those, though.
Your squad of 4 loses 1, moves a bit, loses another soldier. Then you cast heal on it, bringing it back up to 4.
Would the corpses vanish when their unit of origin is healed or could a squad of 4 leave 6 corpses...?

If the corpses got munched on by some undead (Braaaaaaaains!) or became ammo for a Diablo 2 style Corpse Explosion, it would be unreasonable to "Heal" the unit after that.
It would now be a unit of 3 and unable to heal back to 4.
Necromancy / Revive work in games like Diablo 2 or Warcraft 2 because every unit is a singular entity. (well, not counting ogres)
Targetable corpses would work if they were only created when the whole unit dies.

But littering one or 3 corpses here and there? That causes all sorts of problems even without making them targetable.
Even if the corpse is still there... does the cut-in-half corpse get up and walk back to it's unit when the unit is healed and regains members?