Buy now 32bit -upgrade to 64?

There isn't a 64bit version yet (waiting for 64bit Havok last I'd heard), but when there is there wouldn't be any extra charge or different purchase. Impulse should just install whichever your OS supports when that time comes.

Many thanks kryo... I'll pre-order in that case!

64-bit havok has been released. We plan to do a 64-bit version and both versions would be in the box.

Yes! Go 64-bit!

for a second I thought u said both verions will be in the x-box.

My heart skipped a beat. And then I went NOOOOOOOOO! and then I realised the mistake.

Will this game be making use of huge amounts of RAM to make 64-bit worthwhile?

And to think that MoM could be played with <4MB of RAM.  

I am no expert but afaik 64-bit programs' advantage is not only the the bigger memory pool that can be addressed. First, you have an access to bigger variable sizes, thus allowing you to build a program with more precise floating-point variables, or bigger integers. There are some classes of problems that are hard to solve when you deal with 32-bit variables, as 64-bits give you more "breathing space". Second, well written x64 programs are more efficient (i.e., faster), as you can push more data to the CPU, which is designed to handle such large variables. Still most programs are written for 32-bit systems, as compatibility modes of modern processing units provide very good performance when dealing with 32-bit programs. Because of that, there is really no rush to make 64-bit programs, hence people don't usually observe any performance increase.

Regarding your concern - sure this game might consume quite a lot of RAM, if allowed to. With enough care you can create a small sized (in terms of memory consumption) and efficient program. This is because, depending on the memory model, only a part of variables takes up 64-bit of space. In the most popular LLP64 & LP64 models only "long long", "long" and pointer variables are made of 64 bits. The most popular "int", less popular "char" and rather rare "short int" are left with their default 32, 8 and 16 bit representation. Remember that the games are to be played on huge maps, thus the computer will have to store quite a lot of data, where x64 really shine.

Very thorough summary.  Thank you.  

With regards to large maps, I thought the problem had been solved by what John Carmack has dubbed "MegaTexturing". Wouldn't that technique be very useful here?

I don't think Megatexture would be very useful here.  The game looks to be using tiles for it's maps, which means lots of small, repeated textures.  Same with the units.

Megatexture allows one to use a single massive texture in a game where the memory requirements would otherwise be prohibitive to use such a texture.  I'm sure there is some sort of overhead attached to rendering textures that way.  While it makes sense if it enables something that couldn't otherwise be done, it doesn't make sense to use it on an operation that would be inexpensive to begin with.

Regarding 64-bit, beyond the larger memory addresses, the other neat thing that "makes stuff go faster" is the availability of more processor registers.  While registers are a very complex subject I'm still learning about, more registers means the processor can load more data into itself.  For example it can load more instructions in one shot.  My understanding is this is extremely nice in predictable situations like 3D rendering or video encoding, but I've heard mixed results for less predictable situations like games.

Furthermore, 64-bit isn't always faster in every case.  Long division is known to be slower in 64-bit than 32-bit, due to having to work with larger numbers.

Overall, a lot of benchmarks I've seen show 64-bit performance has different characteristics than 32-bit, but is not always better in every case.

So I guess what I'm saying is don't get too worked up over it in any case

It's not looking like there will be a 64-bit version of Elemental afterall.

Intel apparently wants to charge tens of thousands of dollars for a 64-bit version. No new functionality mind you, just 64-bit.

That's a no-go for us unfortunately. 

The big advantage for 64-bit for us is that we can address more than 2 gigabytes of memory which allows us to stuff a lot more visual effects, textures, and elements into the game as well as support much larger maps, more units displayed at once, etc.

I hate bad news!

Thanks for sharing...

Thats too bad. 64bit would be a pretty nice feature.

Malazan Empire for the Win

Is there any chance we'll see a 64-bit version in the future, when Intel (hopefully) lowers the price?

I hope so.  All our code is 64-bit ready. Havok is the only hold up.

Come on Intel, be nice Please?

I'm doing my best to try to get Intel to let us get a 64-bit version. We don't need any of the new features, just the 64-bit part.

You'd think tough economic times would motivate Intel to be more flexible with their licensing schemes. Now is not the time to ignore 'small' customers like Stardock, and I wouldn't be surprised if some larger game shops are having similar frustrations. Bundling's no good unless you really need, or expect to soon need, everything in the bundle.

I'm consoling myself with the fact that I need to put off my next hardware refresh as long as I possibly can. But that's not very much consolation when compared to how much I want to see the Vasty Maps that 64-bit code will enable.

Does this mean it won't run on 64-bit Vista, or it will run, just not take advantage of the architecture?

Oh Elemental will run fine on 64-bit. Most of us are running 64-bit vista or win7. The goal is to have a native 64-bit version.

Would it help if we petitioned Intel to give it to you? I'm sure many of us forums users would be willing to write emails/letters to Intel

Thanks kindly for the quick reply!  I figured it probably would, but figured I would play it safe.  I have to admit I wasn't aware of this game being developed until I went to reinstall GalCivII on my new box.  I can honestly say I am very surprised and happy.  I truly cannot wait for this game.

What a shame that it's Intel's fault we can't have a 64-bit version of the app. Keep us updated, but I'm sad.

I'm probably just daydreaming but what about using AWE (Address Windowing Extension)?  I believe it is supported out of the box on 32-bit, Wow64 and 64-bit environments.  I assume you're using the free havoc binary so would using AWE in the main application create linking problems?

And... and.. what about 64-bit linking against the 32-bit dll?  Wow64 can sort of handle that, right?!

I know, I'm reaching.  It makes me sad there won't be a 64-bit version in the forseeable future.  But I guess I'll take my own advice and not get too worked up over it

You write the petition and I will sign it. See we already have two signatures! GO! GO! GO!

Unless ofcourse you want to go the email rout, in wich case I have to write a letter, which usually takes me hours, see it took me 3 hours just to write this forum post!

J/K (Sarcasm doesn't always make it's way to the other persons screen)

We're talking to the right people at Intel. I'll keep y'all up to date!