Development process

from Elemental Forums

I would like to start from saying, that my name isn't Brad Wardell and I don't know how does the development system look like. We are now in mid of 1B beta (quite early one might say). From what I understand, after 1B finishes, the game will move on to 1C, then 1D, and so on. I could describe this process (as I fathom it):

  1. Frogboy announces what will be the next thing developers will be working at.
  2. A few people write Walls-Of-Text inspired by some previous game titles.
  3. More people write short comments, tearing the proposal apart.
  4. Devs read the topics.
  5. Devs decide what things are cool, and which should be implemented (in one way, or another) into the game.
  6. Commit.
  7. Build.
  8. Debug.
  9. Next stage.

What worries me, is the fact that players don't have much to say about the end product. I mean, we just send some suggestions/comments about game elements, that we even don't know how will look like in general. It's like telling someone to describe a house he would like to have. This poor person doesn't know where this house will be placef, how much money does he have, etc. In the end, the house (game) might look not as good as we would wish.

What I would like to see, is a system with 3 special phases, when players will be able to post their suggestions.

  • Pre-implementation phase
    As it is now. Before every crucial part, Frog Boy asks how we would like to see a particular part being implemented.
  • Post-implementation phase
    New phase. During pre-implementation stage of new content, post-implementation of old (last) content can be discussed, so that we can give any comments regarding the complete sub-system. In other words: next part of beta will be battle. Now we post suggestions regarding that phase, but when the economic system will be finalized, we should be able to post our comments on this (I mean: you should listen :P).
  • Release phase
    When all the sub-systems are implemented into the game, there should be be last beta stage. During it, only cosmetic suggestions can be made (other are scraped).

That's basically my idea of how could the development process look like, and please spare me comments "You nab, they are teh pros - they kn0w how to make gamez!". I mostly interested in dev's opinion about this matter.

Thank you for your attention.

5,951 views 5 replies
Reply #1 from Elemental Forums Top

While fan input is nice and interesting, there are two shortcomings:

- Fans (specially hardcore fans) don't represent the majority of the game target.

- Fans contradict themselves, throw ideas that aren't viable, ...

Developing a system is a long road between "the idea" and "the execution" where things change a lot. The team needs clear ideas and objectives, giving too much weight to forum/mail/whatever input outside the team would make the development process infinite.

And last, but not least, it's their game :p

Multiplicity - Control multiple PCs using one keyboard and mouse
Reply #3 from Elemental Forums Top

You nab, they are teh pros - they kn0w how to make gamez! :D

 

Warder

Reply #4 from Elemental Forums Top

Ok, so to clarify what I meant. I am not telling the devs how to make the game. They decide what to implement, they write the code, they sit all night to make it work, they make the graphics, etc. The main idea of my post, is to propose a system where our opinion's quality is higher. As VicenteC wrote: there are many players' opinions, and many of them are contradictory or of low quality (for example proposals that change the game so much, that they would be impossible to implement).

Frogboy & Co. decided to listen to their customers (much more than any other company I've heard of), so I want our suggestions to be as good as possible. My biggest fear about the current system (if I am right), is that many of our suggestions may be about things that for sure won't be in the game. In other words: we talk about turn-based (HoMM-style) turns, while devs think about real-time battles.

The last clarification. We have a farmland. There are lords (devs), who wish to listen to workers (our) opinion. Lords ask: "What should we plant?". Workers answer: "Strawberries!", "Potatoes!", "Onion!", "Apple trees!", "Let's breed some chickens!" (That would mean: "Screw Elemental, you should make GalCiv 3!"). After a few weeks workers get an order to plant only orange trees...

How many of them proposed any of fruit trees? 25%
How many of them suggested one of the 3 trees lords were thinking about? 15%
How many workers proposed a meaningful suggestions? 12%
How many suggestions were taken into consideration? 5%
How many proposals were part of the final decision? 1%

Assuming that there are 10,000 "Walls-of-text" on this and other forums, we end up with 100 useful (implemented) suggestion. That's quite a success, in my opinion. The problem? I doubt that there will be anywhere near 10k suggestions, more like 1k. 1% * 1000 = 10...

The last, final, definitive clarification (in this post :P):

Gamer wants to play a game ---> Gamer goes to a shop/visits a e-shop page ---> Gamer buys a good game*

*Good game:

  • Game that he can run on his machine.
  • Game that has an acceptable price.
  • Game that is of high quality (graphics, music, balance, etc.).
  • Game that he feels is fun.

All humans need money & All game developers are humans ---> Game developers (devs) need money ---> Devs find a producer ---> Devs try to write a good game

How does a dev write a good game? Two scenarios.

Scenario one:
Dev takes a look at the best-selling games ---> Dev copies big chunks of successful games ---> Dev makes a few changes, so that his game won't be called a X's clone* ---> Dev adds some boobs ---> Dev releases the game ---> Game is a failure/success

*Optional

Scenario two:
Dev takes a look at good/innovative games ---> Dev chooses the best ideas of these games ---> Dev wonders about these ideas and decides which to implement  ---> Dev adds he's own (and some of user base's) ideas to the game ---> Dev releases the game ---> Game is a total failure / game becomes a new standard

...

OK, screw the lengthy explanations. You don't need player suggestions to make good games, but it never hurts to listen to their opinions, especially when there are so many players that can give valuable opinions.

Reply #5 from Elemental Forums Top

Yeah, we should get a bit more direct instructions when needed. Otherwise the lords & workers scenario erupt.