how could u be soo wrong  the maps arn't basically 2d  it is all fucking 3d  are u a iddiot

They do as far as gameplay is concerned.

I'm sorry, what are you saying? That just because units can fly off the map at different altitudes that affect their actions, it doesn't make the maps 3d as far as gameplay is concerned?

Do you at any point have alive units going under the map floor? No.

Do you at any point have units going behind artistic elements? No.

Do the flying units go below the egde of the map preventing other units from seeing/hitting them? No.

Do you have arcs, bridges, levels over/under the map where units will be higher/lower than others, affecting their aim/damage? No.

Do you at any point have alive units move outside the playing area? No.

Is the playing area a two dimensional plane which allows flying units above it? Yes.

Does the game need a full 3d collision check with the environment? No.

Any dead units that fall of the cliffs are no longer gameplay relevant, just there for artistic value.

Kind of getting off track here.

If the only thing a mapmaker provides is a simple 2D plane upon which characters may stride, his/her effort is by comparison and in the company of current maps like Brothers and Crucible, a failure and not worthy of play.

Might be like making an argument that texturemapping a 10,000 polygon character is difficult, therefore only the Maya mesh creation is necessary. These maps are 3-dimensional. The playfield upon which one operates is flat, but it is still a carefully modelled construct. Modelling takes time, planning, and an understanding of many things technical. This ain`t the Build engine, or DOOMCaD (although those programs took skill & planning as well to execute something worthwhile).

- How many polys display at once at maximum zoom out level? Too many?
- Do any of the surrounding architectures obstruct camera view at 'normal' heights/orientations? What is 'normal'?

... plus tons of other concerns that I`m sure arise once you get into the process.

Making a map that looks great is as necessary as one that plays well. If you disagree, then go ahead and turn off textures & shadows... . And any associated background meshes (like the skeletons on Brothers).

no player can but  angels have been seen going under the map

I'm truly amazed by your communicating skills. Did your mom drop you on your head on a regular basis? Do people call you flathead because of this? Then, why act surprised... LOL

As far as I'm concerned, you're just another 5 year old prick, too dumb to see the obvious. The fact that you are from Great Britain and by this age can't spell right makes sick. There's a clear difference between "your and you're" moron.

Why am I arguing with an idiot who jumps to name calling if proven otherwise? Stupid of me, yes.

Go back to school moron, or tell your parents you need serious help, the world doesn't need another looser, it's full of them already.

this thread is pure idiocy, i dont know why i read it...

That's what happens when Stardock publishes a mainstream game and the forums change from being a productive and interesting place to pissing contests between adolescents

Thank you Kryo.

If you are not familiar with the game engine and you don't know what role things like heightmaps, strata, decals, procedual skydomes, props, bps, markers, path nodes, emitters, albedos, bump and normal maps play in the SupCom engine, please don't even try to guestimate a price tag for a Demigod map. I'm intimately familiar with SupCom maps and the game engine, I have seen the beta 1 maps in the editor and I would not even dream to guess how long it takes to create maps like this.

The real question here is: Can a modding team do it? Yes, they can! But it will take them weeks and hundreds of hours of hard work to present anything comparable if they start from scratch. To create a completely new amp you will need one better two 3D artists, 2 texturers, a scripter, someone familiar with the map editor and someone with experience for effects.

If you settle for a map based on an existing map and reuse the background and a bunch of textures, it will be a lot easier. This could be done in a realistic timeframe with 3 or 4 dedicated modders.

Moving towers and forts around, changing creep paths, textures and the like can be done in Notepad++ and Photoshop on a weekend - if you know what you are doing.

I have not looked very deeply into Demigod maps yet because I dont want to waste my time if we dont get a map editor and importers/exporters for 3DS and Blender. But I think my assumtions here are pretty accurate from what I've seen in the beta.

I seriously doubt that the maps took more time making that the characters, which are animated. Aside from the flowing water the maps are static, but that can be scripted since it has no gameplay interaction.

As far as collision is concerned, just the 2d platform is taken into account.

Also, the background can only be seen from above and a bit from the sides, meaning there's no point (both timewise and performancewise) wasting time drawing underneath.

My time estimate is for modders who have to learn how the engine works, not professionals. I can tell you that we have maybe 5 to 10 mappers in the SupCom community atm who wouldnt have to put at least a week into learning how everything falls into place before they can even think of working on Demigod maps. I have yet to see a single one of them here but I think that will change in a hurry if the map editor for Demigod is released.

@Stardock: The map dev tool from beta 1 was perfectly okay. Please release the updated version if (when?) you add modding support, thanks.