Race selection factors: Home system features

I've recently spent a deal of time testing some of the subtler aspects of each race's home system. Here are my conclusions.

With the the great increase in the impact of the terraforming techs in Dark Avatar, and the addition of asteroid mining to the game, the other features of each races home system have become more important in choosing your player race (especially when playing on lower abundance settings).

Some notes & caveats.

1) Data were derived empirically, (mostly from a reasonable number [50-200 trials] of tailored race-game starts), so the suggested percentage chances of particular outcomes are approximate, generally rounded to the nearest 5%.

2) The planet improvement potentials of SOME home system minor planets is clearly unique, since it is not always the same for planets of the same PQ (see Mars vs Kona vs Iconia V). Since I did not do extensive tests on minor planets NOT in home systems, it is not clear whether some of the other home system minors follow the same improvement pattern as random low PQ planets; HOWEVER, I suspect that they do (see the PQ3s below, and the other PQ4s).

3) Note that although the >PQ4 minor planets gain significantly less from terraforming techs than the PQ3s & PQ4s, and end up in final improvement actually SMALLER (in PQ) than the lower PQ worlds, this effect is somewhat made up for by bonus tiles. The home system PQ3s & PQ4s NEVER have bonus tiles; the >PQ4 home system minors have a very high (90%+) probability of 100-~900% (combined) tile bonuses of the various sorts. Again, I did not do the testing to check if this correlates with the usual occurance of bounus tiles among random minor planets.

4) There doesn't seem to be any correlation between particular races, or abilities (i.e., Luck), in the occurrance of galactic resources near home systems.

5) All home systems have 3 asteroid fields (even the Thalan - I thought it would make sense for the Bugs to have an extra, sense there is no minor planet, but nope.)
No (usable) home system minor planets have moons or rings.

6) For the sake of game initiation time across several hundred test starts, all sampling was done against tiny galaxies w/ all rare settings. The rare occurance of "no minor planet" for some home systems reflected in the table below may not occur with more abundant planet settings (except for the Thalans, who never have a minor planet).


Table of Home System Features to Consider in Race Selection:

Terran Alliance:
Homeworld - Earth........PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ moon (+10% Mil/Soc Prod)
minor.....- Mars.........PQ 4+2+2+2 (10) 100% of games

Drengin Empire:
Homeworld - Drengia......PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ moon (+10% Mil/Soc Prod)
minor - Kona.........PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~80% of games

Altarian Resistance:
Homeworld - Altaria......PQ 12+1+1+1 (15), w/ moon (+10% Plt Approval; +10% Mil/Soc Prod)
minor - Wisp.........Not present ~5% of games
.........................PQ 3+2+2+2 ( 9) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+3+3+3 (12) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+5+5+5 (18) ~55% of games

Arcean Empire:
Homeworld - Arcea........PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ moon (+10% Mil/Soc Prod)
minor - Hammer II....PQ 5+1+1+1 ( 8) ~80% of games; ~90% some bonus tiles
.........................PQ 5+2+2+2 (11) ~20% of games; ~90% some bonus tiles

Torian Confederation:
Homeworld - Toria........PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ rings (+10% Research)
minor - Toria IV.....PQ 6+1+1+1 ( 9) 100% of games; ~90% some bonus tiles

Yor Collective:
Homeworld - Iconia.......PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ rings (+10% Research)
minor - Iconia V.....Not present ~10% or games
.........................PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~70% of games

Dominion of Korx:
Homeworld - Korx.........PQ 10+1+1+1 (13)
minor - Korx II......PQ 8+1+1+1 (11) 100% of games; ~90% some bonus tiles

Dratha Legion:
Homeworld - Dratha.......PQ 10+1+1+1 (13)
minor - Dratha IV....PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~80% of games

Thalan Empire:
Homeworld - Thala........PQ 15+1+1+1 (18) (+10% Plt Approval)

Iconian Refuge:
Homeworld - New Iconia...PQ 14+1+1+1 (17) (+10% Plt Approval
minor - New Iconia V.Not present ~5% of games
.........................PQ 3+2+2+2 ( 9) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+3+3+3 (12) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+5+5+5 (18) ~55% of games

Korath Clan:
Homeworld - Kora.........PQ 10+1+1+1 (13)
minor - Kora II......PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~80% of games

Krynn Consulate:
Homeworld - Kryseth......PQ 10+1+1+1 (13)
minor - Kryseth II...PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~80% of games

Custom System:
Homeworld - Custom.......PQ 10+1+1+1 (13), w/ moon (+10% Mil/Soc Prod)
minor - Custom II....PQ 4+3+3+3 (13) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 4+4+4+4 (16) ~80% of games


drrider
19,931 views 34 replies
Reply #1 Top
5) All home systems have 3 asteroid fields


The xml file isn't doing its job, since all systems have pre-defined asteroid field sizes (which range from 1 for the Korath and the Krynn IIRC to 4 for the Terrans).

On the subject of asteroids, it's rather strange that since resources are beamed to planets, you can actually redirect asteroids to planets in *other* star systems - rather long distance to be beaming stuff, don't you think? Maybe it should be restricted to the star system where the field is located?
Reply #2 Top
rather long distance to be beaming stuff, don't you think?


I guess thats why they added the reduction over distance factor into the game. However i do also believe that it would be good to have them only available in the system they are found in, or maybe the surrounding tiles to a distance of one for a 50% reduction in output.
Reply #3 Top
Hi!
I've recently spent a deal of time testing some of the subtler aspects of each race's home system.

Good one report! Thanks for sharing the info.

Thalan Empire:
Homeworld - Thala ...PQ 15+1+1+1 (18) (+10% Plt Approval)

Looks like Thala would need 3+3+3 terra tiles, and Toria and Arcea 2+2+2. Probably also Earth and Korx.

BTW your numbers for arceans' Hammer don't add up correctly.

BR, Iztok
Reply #4 Top
Thax, Iztok. Fixed the Arcean total tiles.
Also fixed the percentage occurance of the Yor 2nd planet, which was apparently showing up 110% of the time in my mind (and was apparently briefly named "Kona", by some Drengin expatritates no doubt.)

It is probably worth note that, even if you focus on the effort, it takes significant time to get the final terraforming tech, compared to being able to force the first 2 levels pretty quickly. So the size of the second planet after Habitat Improvement should probably be considered a significant benchmark. That issue, plus the Morale benefit of getting a planet up to PQ 11, makes the 3+5+5(+5) and the 4+4+4(+4) secondary planets even more significant.

And wouldn't Super Planetformer, who could add one to each level of terraforming, be a terrific Super Ability?

drrider
Reply #5 Top
Are planet populations capped based on the initial PQ or current PQ? For example, will a PQ3 and PQ4 world always cap out at 1.28B and 2.5B respectfully even if they are later terraformed to 10+ PQ?
GalCiv II Wiki - Population
Reply #6 Top
Are planet populations capped based on the initial PQ or current PQ? For example, will a PQ3 and PQ4 world always cap out at 1.28B and 2.5B respectfully even if they are later terraformed to 10+ PQ?



Not in the latest DA beta. When PQ changes via terraforming, the pop cap also changes.


Reply #7 Top
It seems to me that the pop caps do reflect the starting PQ, not the current PQ. This is, in my mind, a bug. (I haven't tried the latest patch).
Reply #8 Top
(I haven't tried the latest patch).



If that's a big deal, then update. You won't have that problem anymore.

Not that you won't have other problems!


Reply #9 Top
And wouldn't Super Planetformer, who could add one to each level of terraforming, be a terrific Super Ability?


Actually, this would be more logical for Super Adapter IMO. Giving colonization techs as a super ability not only sounds fishy, it may also be irrelevant - if there are no such planets nearby, it's basically a wasted SA.

It seems to me that the pop caps do reflect the starting PQ, not the current PQ. This is, in my mind, a bug. (I haven't tried the latest patch).


This is one of those bugs that I can't understand why is still around. The changes log for the latest patch doesn't mention fixing it.
Reply #10 Top
This is one of those bugs that I can't understand why is still around. The changes log for the latest patch doesn't mention fixing it.


It was fixed in an earlier patch, if I recall correctly.

2) The planet improvement potentials of SOME home system minor planets is clearly unique, since it is not always the same for planets of the same PQ (see Mars vs Kona vs Iconia V).


I was aware of this fact, but I never did the number crunching. Thanks for doing so. Its always useful to know how well you can expect your planets to develop when selecting a race.

By the way, do you think you can custom races to that list?
Reply #11 Top
This is one of those bugs that I can't understand why is still around.



It's not.


Reply #12 Top
Iconian Refuge:
Homeworld - New Iconia...PQ 14+1+1+1 (17) (+10% Plt Approval
minor - New Iconia V.Not present ~5% of games
.........................PQ 3+2+2+2 ( 9) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+3+3+3 (12) ~20% of games
.........................PQ 3+5+5+5 (18) ~55% of games



Great. It's bad enough being Iconians, but come to find out that in my latest game I got the 20%
Reply #13 Top
Looks like the Terrans get the short end of the stick w/r/t Mars, huh?
Reply #14 Top
since resources are beamed to planets, you can actually redirect asteroids to planets in *other* star systems


There's also the smallish detail that you can beam resources from asteroids to planets, but not from one planet to another... rather curious.

It was fixed in an earlier patch, if I recall correctly.


In the latest apparently.

It's not.


It was, until a couple of days ago. Since not everyone has the latest patch...
Long enough if you ask me.
Reply #15 Top
There's also the smallish detail that you can beam resources from asteroids to planets, but not from one planet to another... rather curious.


I think we must assume that...bad...things happen when one tries to use the "pure element" transmat technology in/near a significant gravity well (and/or atmosphere). On the other hand, if the location of your transmitting station is ALREADY disintegrated to a bunch of oversized gravel...(grin).

drrider
Reply #16 Top
It was, until a couple of days ago. Since not everyone has the latest patch...
Long enough if you ask me.



No, it's been fixed at least since beta 1, which I've been playing for more like a couple of weeks, hardly a couple of days.
Reply #17 Top
I'm playing DA 1.6B2. I colonized a PQ4, so if my population grows past 2.5B after I start terraforming it then I'll know it is fixed.
Reply #18 Top
one tries to use the "pure element" transmat technology in/near a significant gravity well (and/or atmosphere).


You're not forgetting that the *receiving station* is in that category, are you?    Not to mention that there can be other planets or objects in the transfer path...
Reply #19 Top
You're not forgetting that the *receiving station* is in that category, are you? Not to mention that there can be other planets or objects in the transfer path...


Transfer PATH!? Were you asleep in "N Dimensional Physics 301"?? (grin)
Reply #20 Top
By the way, do you think you can custom races to that list?


Devine -
Custome races, whether player or opponent, all seem to use the "Custom Homeworld" system, which IS covered as the last entry on the chart. Basically a standard PQ10 w/moon homeworld, with a standard PQ4 (+3+3+3 or +4+4+4, variable) secondary, with 3 asteroid fields.

drrider
Reply #21 Top
Transfer PATH!? Were you asleep in "N Dimensional Physics 301"?? (grin)


Nope, apparently YOU were. Resources are *beamed*, not warped, or any pocket dimension or time distortion related bull      Then there's the issue with resources actually decreasing with distance, but we're really not getting into a physics discussion here, are we?   
Reply #22 Top
5) All home systems have 3 asteroid fields (even the Thalan - I thought it would make sense for the Bugs to have an extra, sense there is no minor planet, but nope.)


DA 1.6 beta 1, playing as Iconians with 20% minor planet result (3+2+2+2), I have FOUR asteroid fields in my home system. I just double-checked it because I didn't believe it myself.
Reply #23 Top
DA 1.6 beta 1, playing as Iconians with 20% minor planet result (3+2+2+2), I have FOUR asteroid fields in my home system. I just double-checked it because I didn't believe it myself.


Yeah, I wondered if that would get fixed (though I haven't noted it myself yet). someone else earlier in the thread mentioned that the planets .xml file actually makes provision for different asteroids in each home system, but it did not seem to be working right. Apparently the Sol system is supposed to be asteroid heavy also, which would help make up for the permanent nerf status of Mars terraforming.

Time to re-survey starting systems w/ 1.6b3, I guess.

I also want to check out what happens to various secondary planets with PQ+ chosen.

drrider
Reply #24 Top
DA 1.6 beta 1, playing as Iconians with 20% minor planet result (3+2+2+2), I have FOUR asteroid fields in my home system. I just double-checked it because I didn't believe it myself.


Yeah, I wondered if that would get fixed (though I haven't noted it myself yet). someone else earlier in the thread mentioned that the planets .xml file actually makes provision for different asteroids in each home system, but it did not seem to be working right. Apparently the Sol system is supposed to be asteroid heavy also, which would help make up for the permanent nerf status of Mars terraforming.

Time to re-survey starting systems w/ 1.6b3, I guess.

I also want to check out what happens to various secondary planets with PQ+ chosen.

drrider
Reply #25 Top
Transfer PATH!? Were you asleep in "N Dimensional Physics 301"?? (grin)


Nope, apparently YOU were. Resources are *beamed*, not warped, or any pocket dimension or time distortion related bull Then there's the issue with resources actually decreasing with distance, but we're really not getting into a physics discussion here, are we?


Actually, in 2nd year there was this demo by one of the graduate groups where they "beamed" 10 lbs of sand from one end of the lab to a dimensional interface receptor at the other end, outside the interference range of the dematerializer/transmat rig. It was supposed to pop out again on a clear platform in the U. warehouse at the spaceport - but - (ahem) something must have bumped the settings before the official demo. It took about 3 days to get the solid silicon plug out of the S-bend in the Provost's toilet. (grin)

drrider

PS - I love Science FICTION; with enough time allowance, you can rationalize ANYTHING!