Military Starbases too weak

I would also make it so if a Military Starbase is next to a planet that you can not invade that planet until the Military Starbase is destroyed.

Or military Starbases could assist during invasions?

Or, if you had a ship or a fleet on that tile, the starbase (military or not) would fight along with your ship(s). That would make adding even a little firepower worth it most of the time.

Military starbases can be greatly helpful if you use them right.

In my current game I have been using fleets of Tiny ships with 1 attack point, and I build military starbases next to enemy planets before invading. After upgrading my military starbases I get roughly a +10 attack per ship. In a fleet of 8 tiny ships, that's suddenly a +80 attack!

What I'm saying is that military starbases are useful if you use large fleets of tiny ships, but not that useful if you just use bigger ships.

well i prefer small like to put shild too + speed that way u get defens out of the base too

This is, if you make 'em stronger then swarms of tiny ships become invincible.

Perhaps the answer is a percentage increase?

I thing - simply giving more HP with more modules can be good way (fully equpted SB with cca 1,5 x more firepower than dreadgnut, but with cca 0,5 HP make no sense.
I vote for fully SB to have cca 300-350 HP.

I thing - simply giving more HP with more modules can be good way (fully equpted SB with cca 1,5 x more firepower than dreadgnut, but with cca 0,5 HP make no sense. I vote for fully SB to have cca 300-350 HP

military star bases are amazingly strong if used correctly.
1 you should not put weapons on the starbase it self but put a small fleet on that square to protect it your saving time since you dont need construction ships and when ever you upgrade yoru ships the defence around it gets stronger.

If you are using military bases you must realise there mostly intended for small ships.

If i choose to use military starbases and expand slowly then i build medium size ships with almost no fire power and mostly shields. The offence bonus the military base gives is amazing since its in all 3 weapon trees making it very hard to defend against.

Maybe Starbases should give a +x% bonus instead of or additionally to the fixed +x points?

BUt i still thing SB age giganting stuctures and having lower HP than smaler ships is little strange (especialy MSB) and if is in game posible to have e.q. 10 small ships (with support of another SB) than gigantic SB is "little" unrealistic.
I like realistic game (if reality dont kill gameplay) and bonuses to attack/deffense in game is to much unreaůlistic (give bonus to combat ships e.q. 20% due to close R&R and fire cover - yes it is very realistic, but make ship 10x stronger ???? this is tu much unrealistic.

"1 you should not put weapons on the starbase it self but put a small fleet on that square to protect it your saving time since you dont need construction ships and when ever you upgrade yoru ships the defence around it gets stronger."

I've found that often doesn't work though, eventually the starbase is "up first" and then you're hosed (defenseless starbase takes a few grand with it between setup fees and upgrades, then the fleet that was depending on its bonuses to operate properly gets thrashed). I tried "garrisoning" a bunch of mining bases this way, they just got shot out from under my fleets' collective noses (didn't seem to matter if I put sentry/guard/whatever mode on), and the same happens to my military bases (the computer is generally smart enough to blow them up after it loses a fleet or two against my base-and-omega pumped defenses on whatever planet I'm using as a lure...

Someone had asked or suggested starbases getting the bonus from other military starbases... with the 4-per-sector limit, and the ongoing discussion about the offense/defense balance, I really don't see this getting out of hand because the granted benefits are individually pretty small anyway. I've made a few changes to some of the techs in a "tweak" (yeah I've got files in the mod folder but I wouldn't even say it was a balance mod, just cleaned up a couple things to suit my tastes a bit better), I actualy trebled the bonus values for weapons/defenses the modules give out, and even that has far from made my fleets unstoppable killing machines, it just seems to make them stay useful longer (bigger boost early on but early on you're not usually pushing starbases all that quickly, at least not if you intend for them to stick around, later a +6 is still an extra module whereas even all the +2s added up didn't really do anything even with 4 bases in the sector... high-end weapons end fights way too fast.

I do agree that their HP values are a bit off... especially as they have to repair the "hard" way (can't dock 'em at a planet, can't even pull refit cheese with 'em) and so even if you max out their defenses they're pretty cheap to chip away at with a couple high-attack ships as long as you don't get really bad rolls.

Some way of *actually* garrisoning the starbases would be really nice, the mod guide hints at this but actually being able to attach a fleet somehow (either allowing starbases in fleets, and you just can't move them, or by making them obstacles and having ships dock at them like planets) would make them a lot more generally useful, rather than something that usually helps you out early on when you often can't really afford them, and then just gets eaten by a lone all-attack frigate that gets to limp off with its 1 hp.

i also feel that SB should be stronger. enemy fleets should have to expend some resources, large fleets to take out star bases. the star bases need more hit points, 300 - 500 hps.

I've found that often doesn't work though, eventually the starbase is "up first" and then you're hosed (defenseless starbase takes a few grand with it between setup fees and upgrades, then the fleet that was depending on its bonuses to operate properly gets thrashed). I tried "garrisoning" a bunch of mining bases this way, they just got shot out from under my fleets' collective noses (didn't seem to matter if I put sentry/guard/whatever mode on), and the same happens to my military bases (the computer is generally smart enough to blow them up after it loses a fleet or two against my base-and-omega pumped defenses on whatever planet I'm using as a lure...

Thelron, are you sure? I've never had a starbase fight first when I had other ships on the same space. My ships have always gone first, in all versions I've played. The guard and sentry modes I've found no use for, because it doesn't seem like they work. I think if you keep your ships on the bases, they'll defend them until they (ships) are gone.

But wouldn't it be better if your starbase were a part of the fight? Then there wouldn't be a need for massively increasing HP's. Why should it take a fleet of attack ships ages to destroy a starbase with only a module or two? Wouldn't it be more "realistic" that when you have ships on a starbase tile, it means they'll take their stand at the starbase, which can help with whatever offensive and defensive components it has at the time?

Personally, I'd be happy with Military Starbases if they just scaled better in survivability. Even at high techlevels they DO provide useful benefits, mostly for smaller hull sizes but every bit helps - they are just way too flimsy.

A couple of fairly simple ideas that hopefully aren't too unbalancing:
* Add another 2 Fortification techs (IV and V) with even higher level attack/defense modules. Starbases are supposed to be huge and probably have way better energy-generating abilities than you can place on ships. As such, it would be nice if they had real teeth also in the end-game tech race. When the choice is between investing 5-8 constructors or 30+, the latter supposedly to make the starbase armed and dangerous, it would be nice if it was actually armed and dangerous requiring significant resources to take down.
* Increase starbase hitpoints across the board with each starbase fortification tech. Say another 50% of base hitpoints per tech for non-military starbases and 100% of base hitpoints per tech for military starbases.
* Increase starbase attack/defense by miniaturization... Hey, if the components are smaller on the ships so there are room for more of them, that's probably the case on starbases as well. No redesign of starbases needed, just increase the attack/defense values as if the extra space in each component was utilized properly.
* Better self repair...

More far out ideas...
* Let ANY combat action that occurs within range of a military starbase suffer one (1) initial attack from the starbase at a strength that depends on the distance from the starbase (50% of the starbase range from the starbase gives a 50% attack) before fighting between the participants take place (yes, that includes multiple starbases firing their one shot or even starbases firing in support of other starbases).

* Let a military starbase cause losses to any troop transport attemting to invade a planet within its range. If you need an explanation for how it can do this, just assume that a military starbase has a contingent of small fightercraft that you never see on the map (they are even smaller than tiny ones, some that cannot travel far on their own)... If really pedantic, slave that ability to having upgraded with the fighter-drones.

Don't think any of the non-resource starbases are worth the trouble. Takes too many modules to make them effective and way too many to defend them. I never build any. I only build mining starbases then add only the 7 mining modules to them. I defend them by putting a nice fleet of warships in the same grid sector. I might throw an influence starbase here and there to extend my range, but it's considered disposable.

Thelron, are you sure? I've never had a starbase fight first when I had other ships on the same space. My ships have always gone first, in all versions I've played. The guard and sentry modes I've found no use for, because it doesn't seem like they work. I think if you keep your ships on the bases, they'll defend them until they (ships) are gone.

This happened to me just last night, a fleet on a SB was ignored and the SB attacked.

It might be simple just to treat them like a planet, and stacked ships have to be eliminated before the SB can be attacked.

This happened to me just last night, a fleet on a SB was ignored and the SB attacked.

Starbases tend to get picked on first in most (all?) cases. So you really need to use that fleet to intercept attackers instead of waiting for them to come to you.

Thelron, are you sure?

Well, DrrD sort of took care of this for me, but yes, quite sure (3 bases blown in one round kinda had me ready to just scrap the ships for their impudence, unfortunately I was playing Neutral so they were sent off to "assist" elsewhere by "slowing the enemy advance."

One thought I just had though- when I attack stacked fleets, I want to say that I always get the biggest fleet first (though, last night, I was getting lots of bad matchups and really did think to myself, "what do my frigates always go after the biggest damn ships they can find?"). Anyone else notice this behaviour? I don't know what the different overall strengths were between bases and fleets when I was having the fleet get hit first or the base get hit first, but its something I'm going to keep an eye on because if so than there really *is* no good reason to arm the things (even taking into account that the maintenance of fleet eats into the "saved" constructor costs, a fully upped starbase is worth a LOT of constructors).

Doesn't entirely remove my concerns (true, a measly one-mod starbase shouldn't take forever to kill (potentially making just plain old battlestations good enough for a good part of a game, but at less HPs than the 2nd tier ship and fixed armament values they're even more prone to getting popped by a lucky Small armed with a few high-end guns and an engine), but knowing would help use what they are more effectively (I don't think stations should wipe full-logistics fleets unscathed or anything, and to survive that scale of engagement I think other ships should be involved, but again, single Small... shouldn't have to garrison *every* starbase just so it will stick around when the smaller fleets come raiding). The more I think about garrisoning them... I do think they should be involved in the fight (though the "who gets shot at first" equations could very easily mean we're right back to "dead base, live fleet" unless you can't shoot the base until its fleet is dead)... maybe they only get up to 5 ships "docked" or something to balance the fact that they're blasting away the whole time.

EDIT:

Starbases tend to get picked on first in most (all?) cases. So you really need to use that fleet to intercept attackers instead of waiting for them to come to you.

I saw that mentioned in another post about stationing fleets near planets... same problem applies though, your intercept fleet has to leave its ward to knock out one threat, that means you either have to let them get close enough to attack first anyway so you can get back, or hope you can pile more fleets on a base than the computer has to attack it (per base). The interception idea sounds good but in practice in a turn-based system with free movement (can't have it move out as a reaction, can't place a fleet in the way they'd have to attack) it doesn't work very well.

I tend to think of Military starbase's as Mobile Cannon's for my infantry.

For exp. In BOTF. By stationing a Outpost in the same square as my Battle Fleet. I received one free extra attack. (Or Cloaked ships lost their one "free" round.) Sure it isn't a "fleet killer". But at least it gave me a higher chance at victory.

In GalCiv 2. A swarm of tiny fighters can be made Many times more powerful. By simply Grouping a pair of Construction ships with the fighters. And then before my Tiny fighters attack. I set up the mobile Cannon's. Sure I will lose my starbase eventually. But they served their purpose as movable weapons platforms.

I also will use a setup and bait tactic. I make a “cheap” starbase outside the range of enemy fighters. Wait their initial charge, and pick them off. With my swarm of Tiny fighters. While some of the AI’s fleet are occupied with the diversion. I send in the Main fleet of Fighter\Cruiser\Battleship’s.

Summery: The military base is for support. Not a Stationary Star Fortress. Like other “space” games.

I make a “cheap” starbase outside the range of enemy fighters.

How do ya know what their range is?

Don't think any of the non-resource starbases are worth the trouble.

Wow, I'd be crippled without the economy bases. +44% to production and research is no mean bonus, especially if you can cover 3 or 4 planets with the same bases (my best ever was 6 from one Ebase!)

Wow, I'd be crippled without the economy bases. +44% to production and research is no mean bonus, especially if you can cover 3 or 4 planets with the same bases (my best ever was 6 from one Ebase!)

+44 was very useful(actually, thought it was +49 originally?) Unfortunately they've been nerfed and only provide +24% now, which can still be useful, but is very borderline.

I guess you're using an older version of the game?

If so, then you may find military starbases have also been nerfed. The attack assist modules now cost much more, to the point where they're no longer all that worthwhile (might just as well build extra ships)

My main problem with (non-resource) starbases is that they need a lot of micromanagement (a.k.a. constructors) for limited effects. Call me lazy, but that moves them down a lot on my priority list.

guess you're using an older version of the game?

I'm using 1.2

If so, then you may find military starbases have also been nerfed. The attack assist modules now cost much more, to the point where they're no longer all that worthwhile (might just as well build extra ships)

I rarely build military bases; I mainly use them as a convenient range-extender for future conquests; but that's because of my play style, which generally involves a long, peaceful economic expansion then a very sudden military buildup followed by blitzkreig tactics. I think I have only used them "defensively" in 2 or 3 games.