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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
Join Date 03/2006
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Bandit leader

October 5, 2012 4:31:42 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Has anyone tried to use bandit leader for their Sov recently?  The first time I used it, it was completely useless, but the last time I used it, it was only mildly useless.  I was wondering if anybody thinks it's a good Sov trait?  I was going to create a new faction tonight and wanted to try it out.

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Lord Xia
Wizard1200
Join Date 02/2008
+5
Reply #1 October 5, 2012 4:42:38 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think it is still useless compared to: Warlock (+ 50 % spell damage), Armorer (+ 25 % defense) and General (+ 25 % xp).

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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
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Reply #2 October 5, 2012 4:44:51 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Wizard1200,
reply 1
I think it is still useless compared to: Warlock (+ 50 % spell damage), Armorer (+ 25 % defense) and General (+ 25 % xp).

 

Those are the ones I almost always pick!  

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Lord Xia
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
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Reply #3 October 5, 2012 4:54:54 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

If only some clever person had laid the groundwork for a better balance and more interesting options for Sov creation. I bet the devs would take a look and update the current options. 

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #4 October 5, 2012 5:02:34 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Lord Xia,
reply 2

Quoting Wizard1200, reply 1I think it is still useless compared to: Warlock (+ 50 % spell damage), Armorer (+ 25 % defense) and General (+ 25 % xp).

 

Those are the ones I almost always pick!  

Same... No reason to pick the others for me either.

Sincerely
~ K

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Lord Xia
Kestral2040
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #5 October 5, 2012 5:42:23 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I agree that some of these abilities might need some work to be on line with others...  but I personally think Summoner, Warlord and Beastlord are just as useful as the 3 you mentioned depending on your playstyle.

edit: diplomat is also really, REALLY good

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #6 October 5, 2012 7:34:44 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kestral2040,
reply 6
I agree that some of these abilities might need some work to be on line with others...  but I personally think Summoner, Warlord and Beastlord are just as useful as the 3 you mentioned depending on your playstyle.

edit: diplomat is also really, REALLY good

Oh right, I don't pick general, I pick "Warlord" but that is for my games where all my heroes pick path of the governor (AKA they all become useless )

Beastlord isn't really worth much, and summoner is much worse, compared to having way powerful heroes, one little bear/spider wont do much. We might agree to disagree though.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Lord Xia
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #7 October 5, 2012 8:00:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Another pass on these for balance would be great.

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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
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Reply #8 October 5, 2012 8:41:46 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I don't get much out of summoner, I think it could really be good though, with the right build, I dont think it really needs changed.  But noble seems pretty puny.  I might be wrong on that, but it seems fairly worthless.  I tried beastmaster once, but the no range and long casting time of it often got me killed trying to use it, it could be really good.  I tore a game up getting a collar and a cave bear early.  But bandit lord seems the weakest.  

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Lord Xia
Trojasmic
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #9 October 5, 2012 9:00:13 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

my 7 year-old chooses bandit lord every time.  i think he likes the security of having some extra troops protecting his sovereign.  so we have at least one person using it.

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Lord Xia
Glazunov1
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #10 October 5, 2012 9:06:17 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting seanw3,
reply 3
If only some clever person had laid the groundwork for a better balance and more interesting options for Sov creation. I bet the devs would take a look and update the current options. 

 

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Lord Xia
BernieTime
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #11 October 5, 2012 11:20:15 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Bandit Lord still sucks.  The bandits have no impactful growth per level and get one-shotted by anything that isn't a Mite

Per my last suggestion the 2 starter bandits should grow another body as they level (as seen on other units)

The Bandit Lord could also get a Recruit Mercenary skill similar to the Recruit Beast skill

The above would still only be good in early game, but far more of an impact and value without going OP

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Lord Xia
Wizard1200
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #12 October 6, 2012 12:53:40 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Kestral2040,
reply 6
I agree that some of these abilities might need some work to be on line with others...  but I personally think Summoner, Warlord and Beastlord are just as useful as the 3 you mentioned depending on your playstyle.

edit: diplomat is also really, REALLY good

Summoner would be useful if there were more creatures in the game that could be summoned and if the chance of getting the summoner traits would be higher for a summoner.

Warlord would be useful with a 75 % reduction and if the wealthy trait would not do basically the same.

Beastlord would be useful if the spell had a range and a lower casting time.

Diplomat is nice, but it is not as useful as the combat professions, because the combat gives you xp and loot.

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Lord Xia
Tuidjy
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #13 October 6, 2012 1:15:38 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Armorer and General are the only ones I ever pick.  Lately, with the reduces hero levels, I favor general.

They, and Warlock are the only ones that both have a real impact and remain useful until the end.  Warlock is a mage trait, though, and mages are ineffective at the difficulty settings at which I play.

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Lord Xia
Cynjian
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #14 October 6, 2012 11:45:48 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I recently tried out Nobility, it was handy to have when all the ai went aggro on me.  Plus my cities did grow fairly fast.

I wish Summoner would get some love, mostly in an increased list  to choose from.  Maybe each magic school had some more units but you needed to be a summoner to select them...

Beastlord should work as well as those items do.

 

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Lord Xia
Lord Reliant
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #15 October 6, 2012 1:25:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Cynjian,
reply 15
I wish Summoner would get some love, mostly in an increased list  to choose from.  Maybe each magic school had some more units but you needed to be a summoner to select them...

Agreed. There is an advantage to having it, but it's rather small and seems pretty trivial compared to some other traits. You do get a higher level unit, but even then you still have to spend a decent amount of mana to get the units, plus maintenance on them.

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #16 October 6, 2012 3:00:36 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Wizard1200,
reply 13
Warlord would be useful with a 75 % reduction and if the wealthy trait would not do basically the same.

I don't think warlord should be increased in potency, hopefull the trained units will be worth more to players soon, and that will mean the warlord trait will see more use, 50% wage reduction is incredibly strong. As long as the units are needed.

Sincerely
~ Kongdej

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #17 October 6, 2012 3:01:45 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting Cynjian,
reply 15
I wish Summoner would get some love, mostly in an increased list to choose from. Maybe each magic school had some more units but you needed to be a summoner to select them...

The problem with summoner is not the trait or the amount of summons, but the summoned unit quality, they are only worth any juice early game.

Sincerely
~ K

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Lord Xia
Tuidjy
Join Date 08/2010
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Reply #18 October 6, 2012 3:24:10 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yes summoned units should get attack/defense/dodge bonuses per level.  There's a reason that the crow line is the only bound elementals I use.

You want an instant, trivially easy to implement fix to the summoner class? Have it add perks to the summons. +1 something per level.

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Lord Xia
Poko8
Join Date 08/2008
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Reply #19 October 8, 2012 3:00:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Beastlord really isn't useless, I play as it almost every game.  In the first 5 turns I'll usually have a a widow helping my sov and a few wolves doing my exploration.  

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Lord Xia
KingHobbit
Join Date 02/2010
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Reply #20 October 8, 2012 4:32:40 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I think we also need more talents and weaknesses.  I made post once of a couple.

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Lord Xia
Lord Xia
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Reply #21 October 8, 2012 4:38:56 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Summoner would be nice if there were more things to summon, and they were more powerful/useful.

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BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #22 October 8, 2012 5:05:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Would definitely like to see this in vanilla, but if it isn't done, perhaps I will create a mod to make all these better.

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Lord Xia
Kongdej
Join Date 01/2012
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Reply #23 October 8, 2012 5:13:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting BlackRainZ,
reply 23
Would definitely like to see this in vanilla, but if it isn't done, perhaps I will create a mod to make all these better.

Sad thing is, I feel like this in quite a few places by now

Sincerely
~ Kogndej

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Lord Xia
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #24 October 8, 2012 5:23:50 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I don't understand what you mean. Do you mean it seems like a lot of the stuff people are hoping for isn't in the game and people (like me) keep saying we will just mod it in? Or do you mean something else?


If they don't change it, what else can we do?

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Lord Xia
NorsemanViking
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #25 October 8, 2012 5:38:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Those bandits are 2 free scouts/explorers, or exellent cannon fodder for your first battles. Combined with a sovereign that has alot of good fighting abilities from the start off, it can mean turbo leveling up indeed. The synergy effects should not be underestimated. 

I usually combine bandit lord with a bad ass fighting sovereign with no magic..... Urxen blood is a good combination for instance, since those 2 bandits fast can give you a 5 unit army for that 2+attack bonus.

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