NoPJag

Join Date 03/2006

[Suggestion] Dynasties against heroes scarcity

I'm just wondering why caused suppression of dynasty feature?

If it's because time constraints or implementation problems (family tree, switching sovereign to another one), then I understand perfectly.

But if it is because of gameplay issues, then I don't understand it.

For me, dynasties are a good way to have some control on how many heroes you have. In some games, I tried to focus on the magic research path and tried to make 'super heroes'. But in the beginning, I only succeeded to recruit 2 other heroes, which isn't much (but not so uncommon) and it could get worse on big maps if you don't explore much early. Sure, there are the researchs that allow hiring better heroes, but sometimes, they are killed by opposing factions (it happened to me and I'm always on the lookout to do so to gain experience).

So, I was with 2 heroes, with an underdevelopped Warfare path. So the type of Empire I wanted to create was not possible. Okay, 2 heroes isn't much, but they cannot die...

I'm quite biased because I'm sure I'm enclined to have permadeath of sovereign and heroes (I mean a chance of death among the other injuries, because I like injuries too). And of course, of old age (Seasons pass in FE, not turns, which allow calculating the lifetime of heroes).

I thought: if it was possible to 'create' heroes, it would allow to replenish them, there wouldn't be a problem. There should be a penalty, let's say that (and it is an already existing nice mechanism:make the parenting heroes unavailable for so much years). Another option would be to have a building allowing to 'recruit' heroes so that they fit in the construction queue of a city. (But I prefer dynasties).

Also, permadeath which is countered by this, makes more meaning to the death of opposing heroes. In the game following magic path with Resoln, I had killed three times IA's heroes, but the next 2-3 turns, they were already wandering on the map with a injury and damaged hit points. It was not so great, I had the feeling killing the IA's most beloved heroes didn't harm it in anyway . Killing heroes would allow more come backs from loser in a war. Lost a battle but killed an important hero...

I think this would make elemental really great for me (it is already cool now). Anyway, here are my thoughts, like I said, maybe there is something I didn't see that makes this unpractical for gameplay ?

Oh ! And of course, one of the first things I tried was the : \FallenEnchantress\data\English\ElementalDefs.xml <EnableDynasties>1</EnableDynasties> , but doesn't seem to work as I cannot find any option letting heroes to marry.

Oh and another thing is : at some point I noticed it was possible to trade heroes with other nations. I was already far in the research tree, but I don't know what made it available to me. Does someone know ?

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From what I understand, dynasties were not done well enough, and they didn't want to put the resources into that feature when they didn't have a solid way to make it work and be balanced, interesting, and fun. In WoM, there were a lot of bugs involved with the Dynasties, and they were often just a tool to make tons of freely imbued champions. But, the marriage issue of always sending away females and only being able to marry other royal families caused some problems. One was when they removed minor factions, there became a scarcity of people to marry. Two, because of how grandchildren randomly choose their Sov to serve, this could lead to brothers marrying their own sisters. Yes, low grade incest was not uncommon among royals of the middle ages, but high grade immediate family incest was. Third, they were fairly boring as they always had the traits of the same sex parent. Fourth, if your child married a member of a large empire race, it's possible you couldn't get armor for your male grandchildren.

But, I wanted dynasties for FE too. And boats.

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I like the idea of a dynasty system, but if it is done, I'd like it to be done deeply and well. So, rather than spending time on it during the beta I'd be much happier if it was deferred to a future content patch or expansion.

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Hopefully, FE will be a lot better off at launch than WoM was and then they can do things like add content instead of take it away with patches, which seemed to happen fairly often with WoM. I would be pretty damn happy if they dedicated an entire expansion to Dynasties. "Elemental: Dynasties". Even sounds good.

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Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 1

Yet, it was one of my favorite features in WoM And it was not so far from greatness?

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 1

In WoM, there were a lot of bugs involved with the Dynasties, and they were often just a tool to make tons of freely imbued champions.

Right, if children would not be imbued right away, it would maybe fix it ? I thought 'freezing' the parents for 18 years (72 turns) to get a new champion would address the cost issue. And there should always be the limitation on children number from <Dynasty_MaxNumChildren>4</Dynasty_MaxNumChildren>. And maybe we should have a max number of champions ?

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 1

But, the marriage issue of always sending away females and only being able to marry other royal families caused some problems.

Now that I play FE and that the multiplayer has been set aside (at least for a while), I'm wondering if balancing at such a scale is still necessary. I didn't try those tactics in multiplayer or even solo in WoM though. Maybe one of the problematic aspects for multiplayer was that <Dynasty_ChanceToGiveBirth>0.1</Dynasty_ChanceToGiveBirth>. You would rely only on luck. Here I propose to have it as a guarantee.

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 1

One was when they removed minor factions, there became a scarcity of people to marry.

Well, that would be a great incentive to trade with other nations. Right now, I do not feel so compelled to trade with the IA. I find the benefits too meager.

Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 1

Two, because of how grandchildren randomly choose their Sov to serve, this could lead to brothers marrying their own sisters.

Well, I wouldn't go as far as with the original idea from WoM to have turncoats or children that found their own faction (which I found great btw, but yeah: ambitous). If we suppress the random part, they keep in line of the nation. No incest (I do realize that is can be a bit tricky for the game to track), so if the player does trade with others, then he gets the extra benefit to have new blood in his line. I would pay gold or crystal and trade, non-aggr pacts to get the chance to have a new heir/champions)!

It would just be a dynamic for new heroes after the old ones have grown old (instead of immortal ones like now). I wouldn't even go as far as to track children of the sovereign. To keep it simple, let's imagine that instead of letting his nation disappear, the sovereign gives his crown to the highest champion alive (think Sean Connery in First Knight).

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Quoting Lord Xia,

reply 3

"Elemental: Dynasties"

I'm sold !

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