A "'What would you have done?' question"

... or not done?

from Sins Forums

My noob question would be this? 

"What would you have done?"

I played a 6 person ffa on 3 stars and was doing quite well having had started in a system with 2 other players and I had eventually taken the system as my own.  Problem was, i was playing as Vasari which means cash is tight and this guy from another star (TEC player) kept putting 7000 to 10,000 credits on my head... REGULARLY!

This translated into constant and huge pirate raids on different planets making it almost impossible to catch them without sustaining losses to the planet because I had one fleet working on this guys star system and another fleet having to constantly jump to different (sometimes 3 or 4 jumps away) planets to fend off pirates...

Eventually what ended up happening is that I had to group both fleet together and take the Pirate stronghold which contained well over 250 to 300 ships.  I won the battle without losing any capital ships, but I easily lost 1/3 or close to 1/2 of my mixed fleet...

I am then imediatly invaded by this guys fleet and overun just as quickly...  The combinstion of losses i sustained from taking the pirate stronghold and the "amazing" cost of Vasari ships did not put me in the position to counter his fleet.

What would you have done?

strategy
9,770 views 22 replies
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top
yeah pirates are tough. Pirates travel along a same path, and also usually attack the same planets each time. Keep a small squadron and some tactical defenses at each target planet. Pirates are pretty easy to defeat with a small fleet. As Vasari, once you had the star system to yourself, turtling and getting the superweapon is a MUST. That's the only thing that makes Vasari worth it IMO.
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
Intresting... your right, i didnt upgrade to the super weapon, and didnt turtle much... turtleing refers to what exactly though? Bunkering planet by planet with defences?

Also we are talking big ass pirate raids with the amount of mulla on my head.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Pirates will hit the nearest colony to the pirate base that belongs to their target. If you have several planets that are equivalent distance from their base then the pirates may hit any of those targets. So put up static defenses to repel the pirates. How do you do that?

Put up 2 repair bays, a trade port, and surround the tradeport and repair bays with as many guass cannons as you can tactically fit. The pirates want booty (who doesn't?) and will always attack the trade port first, no matter what defenses are around it. The Trade Port is the cheese in the pirate's mouse trap and they will not be able to overcome your static defenses with the repair bays keeping everything healed.

Meanwhile, you go smash the man wasting his money on the pirates.
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top
hmmm this i like.
Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
I would have fortified the planets closest to the pirate base with missile platforms and repair bays, then proceed to NOT attack the pirate base. A well fortified system without a support fleet will fend off any sized pirate raid.

Basically, I take the pirates out of the equation without attacking them. From then on, it's simply a matter of fighting the other guy.

[edit]
A afterthought: If you stick a lvl 1 cap ship in the fortified planet, you will level it up with the pirate raids easily. Remember, cap ships gain experience from enemy destroyed in the gravity well, even if they did not fire a shot.
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
I agree with Warnstaff... fortify that one planet vs. pirate raids, and leave capital ships there to level up.

Once you're ready, take your fleet and uber caps to go smash the opponent. :LOL:
Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
Devious...
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top

use assailants to clusterfck the rats. I mean they DO clump up to big packs of ships so you should by all means exploit that behavior.



Oh, and yo ushould let the mgo to attack your tradeport/refinery. as vasari they will live through a lot (barrier ftw!) and the rats won't be shooting your ships.
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
the reason you sustained such heavy losses is because you let the pirates "win"
... every 15 minutes the pirates spawn a new fleet out of thin air. (try being in their planet when the timer runs out).

When the pirates clear out a planet of all ships and structures they will stop bombing the planet (if it is still alive) and jump back to their home base and be added to the defenses... that is why they were so powerful there.

1. Why didn't you sent the pirates after him? 10k is much less then you have been paying
2. NEVER let pirates win, that makes their base more powerful...
3. To kill all the attacking pirates, find the closest planet to pirates, preferably an astroid, put a pair of repair bays and tons of canons. The canons do MASSIVE damage if something is in range... well the pirates will get in range. If you have a trade port they will zoom right for it, but if you don't then they will eventually get in range and be shredded in seconds.

Capital ships? you have more then one? build some cruisers, much more powerful.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
Yea, i hear what your sayin taltamir...

I did, in fact, let them win on various occasions. I had no defenses built as I was so focused on spending all my money to build a fleet massive enough to take on his system. They did attack the same one or 2 planets consitantly... I guess i was really strapped for cash which is why i didnt put bounties on his head...

it was actually somewhat comical as i put a 2000 credit bounty on his head and he responded with 10,000 on mine... low blow.

It was also the first time i had played Vasari... They are f'ing expensive.

All of you have made some very valid points, though i think the most important i am getting out of this is finding a good balance between the money you spend on a fleet and the money you should spend on defenses.

I find that a lot of players are so ubsessed with creating the largest fleet that they spend nothing on defenses. That was pretty much the idea I had and the lack of defenses ended up costing me half my fleet in some useless rambo attack on a full pirate stronghold. And to think i probably could have taken less than a fifth of my fleet and effectively defended against pirate raids.

Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
teched up to dark fleet asap, i can fend off multiple attacks with the phase stabilizers and a strong fleet and its really hard to not have a FULL fleet with dark fleet active on multiple stabilizers. i have a problem with tec as well as they start out much faster than vasari. you could get the other players to harass them maybe. on the way to DF, make sure to get the resource processing techs as you can translate them to credits as well as the techs that make structures and ships cheaper. i usually leave a small defense fleet at a choke point while my main strike fleet is taking planets. but i have only had a couple of MP games and i know people are way sneakier than the hard AI. i am starting to practice with huge maps and FFA games. we'll see.
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
i dont play Vasari often but i do recall them having "Phase Gates", having those at the constantly attacked planets will help with moving the fleets, and if you had the tech that allows you to detect incoming enemy forces 2 jumps away, you could easly move the defence fleet in. Even better would to have the defence full of repair platforms, then your defence fleet would last twice as long.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
I would have built Phase Portals(w.e. they are called, those things that allow you to travel from A planet to B planet without the use of a phase line) on the planets that are most attacked. I found it is a waste of credits to use bounty as Vasari. They are also usefull for the Black Armada which is a huge boost late game. Getting so many free and powerfull units (little overpowered if you ask me) Who said that?! O.o
And ya as one person said use the Refineries as distactions. The AI is a little dumb and attack the Ships and the Refinery itself while they are getting blown to peices...saves me a lot of trouble though
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
if you got dark armada and had like 11-12 phase stabilizers, you could easily replace 500 supply of losses instantly every few minutes.
Reply #16 from Sins Forums Top
normaly i triy to get any other empirs to ally me that that way i get the trade income and attack the pirats base with a combind fleet in the erly game.
Reply #17 from Sins Forums Top
You know, the place where pirates show up is totally predictable.

Which means you can defend the hell out of that planet with tactical structures.

Seriously. Next pirate raid - build 3-4 repair yards, then as many other defensive structures (hangars til you run out of tac points, then static guns), put them all in a very tight ball around your trade centre and refinery. The pirates will break trying to take it, they don't have the shields to hang around killing trade centres and hangars and things which are being buffed 3 or 4 ways, even with the highest level pirate raids they often fail to take down structures. They tend to go very light on the siege frigates and your fighters should be able to deal with whatever number they throw in. If someone jumps in and rides the pirates, if you have no ships there, the pirates then seem to go after them instead. Keep a force on standby 1-2 jumps away in case something horrible happens.

Try it.
Reply #18 from Sins Forums Top
My noob question would be this? 
"What would you have done?"
I played a 6 person ffa on 3 stars and was doing quite well having had started in a system with 2 other players and I had eventually taken the system as my own.  Problem was, i was playing as Vasari which means cash is tight and this guy from another star (TEC player) kept putting 7000 to 10,000 credits on my head... REGULARLY!
This translated into constant and huge pirate raids on different planets making it almost impossible to catch them without sustaining losses to the planet because I had one fleet working on this guys star system and another fleet having to constantly jump to different (sometimes 3 or 4 jumps away) planets to fend off pirates...
Eventually what ended up happening is that I had to group both fleet together and take the Pirate stronghold which contained well over 250 to 300 ships.  I won the battle without losing any capital ships, but I easily lost 1/3 or close to 1/2 of my mixed fleet...
I am then imediatly invaded by this guys fleet and overun just as quickly...  The combinstion of losses i sustained from taking the pirate stronghold and the "amazing" cost of Vasari ships did not put me in the position to counter his fleet.
What would you have done?
End of quote


Raider Xenophobia + Phasic Barrier. Research these techs and put 35 Phase Missile Turrets at the world the pirates attack(the one closest to their base), clumped up around the Trade Port/s or towards the phase lane which the pirates enter from, as everyone else has said. Remember to turn off the Phasic Barriers once the pirates are dead since they're bugged and get jammed on. You don't need to bring a fleet to face them.

Or leave new capital ships in th gravity well to level up, as someone said, while your turrets chew up the pirates.
Reply #19 from Sins Forums Top
You all make some very valid points...

I am new to Vasari and techs such as the Phase Stablizers, raider xenophobia, and phasic barrier are all techs that i was unfortunately not utilizing what-so-ever. The Dark Armada is actually a tactic that i have only recently begun to explore.

Thanks for the eye openeres and the good tactics. The fact of the matter is, in an almost 4 hour game, even a decent Vasari player should have been able to take the force he threw at me and still have some if not many to throw back.

Thanks again,

ikconik
Reply #20 from Sins Forums Top
with a few repair bays, you never need 35 missile turrets, thats overkill especially in mp games.
Reply #21 from Sins Forums Top
Not that I've faced your exact problem, but I deal with pirates with fighters and bombers. They do a pretty good job of leading pirate fleets wherever you want them to go, which is naturally right in the middle of a turret farm.
Reply #22 from Sins Forums Top
Old McTurret had a farm. E I E I O !.

Sorry. Seriously the mousetrap Idea with a phase gate link is the best way to deal with pirates. just keep an eye on the battle and if for some reason it looks like the pirates will win, you can phase gate in to help. Plus the benefit of returning Armada , once researched, will indeed replace losses fast, and for free.