Attack and Defense

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed, I looked and couldn't find it. So I'm hoping for either some quick answers or someone to hold my hand.

Can someone please explain to me how attack and defense works? By what I see in the details screen, and what-not, I should be pasting these fleets I come across. Yet I don't do anywhere near enough damage as I believe I should be. Using beam weapons and the AI isn't using any shields. Maybe some armor. On the flip side it looks like I'm getting shelacked when I shouldn't.

Anyone know the formulas?

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I think we need more info to really answer your question:

what size ships are you using and what weapons do you have? What size fleet do you have?

What size are the ships and fleets you are attacking? Even if they aren't using sheilds, armor will still provide some defense, it just won't be as effective as shields,

If you are using fleets of small ships and going up against capital ships, you may damage them but their greater hit points may allow them to survive and give them a chance to destroy your small ships. It will depend on how powerful your weapons are and how many shots you get off (if they attack you, they will get the first shot and may destroy some of your ships before they can even shoot back)

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(if they attack you, they will get the first shot and may destroy some of your ships before they can even shoot back)

This is not true in 1.2. Combat has been changed to give every ship a chance to fire every round -- ships are not "destroyed" until after they've had a chance to fire their shots.

Even if they aren't using sheilds, armor will still provide some defense, it just won't be as effective as shields

I'm not sure about this either. My understanding is that you only get to use the abilities of the other types (square root of their max defense) if you have a defense type equal to the weapon being fired. In other words, if you have 2 defense in laser and 9 defense in missile, and you're being attacked with laser, you can get 2 + sqrt(9) = 5 maximum defense. If you're being attacked with rails, though, you get 0 defense, not sqrt(2+9). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Back to the original post... I definitely agree that we need more information. There are many factors. One could be the numbers game -- many small ships can take out one or a few large ships.

Another thing is that each roll is from 0 to max value. If you get unlucky, you could end up rolling low defense while the other race is rolling high offense numbers. There is a racial ability called "Luck" that mentions this specifically. I always put my racial ability to Luck +25%.

Experience also gives ships more hitpoints, so if you have a new ship going up against a ship that's been in a lot of battles, but is fully repaired, they may be able to outlast you. They get more hitpoints and I think they "learn" (i.e. become a little more lucky).

Also, make sure the fleet you're fighting isn't getting some sort of a military boost (offense or defense) from a military starbase.

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Hi!

If you're being attacked with rails, though, you get 0 defense, not sqrt(2+9). Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

You get int(sqrt(2)) + int (sqrt(9)) = 4 against mass drivers. So ANY defense helps, but only the correct one really helps.

Another thing is that each roll is from 0 to max value.

Just a small correction. Defenses roll from 0 to max value. Attacks roll from 1 to max value (at least I've never seen an attack roll 0 to undefended ship).

BR, Iztok

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one more thorugh example to beat this point to death

ship with 5 shield, 9 armor, 1 point defense

effective armor= 9+int(sqrt(5))+int(sqrt(1))=9+2+1=12 armor
effective shield= 5+int(sqrt(9))+int(sqrt(1))=5+3+1=9 shield
effective pd= 1+int(sqrt(5))+int(sqrt(9))=1+2+3=6 point defense

so 5/9/1 is functionally 9/12/6

it pays to hit those squares

at least the first 1 or 2 of them anyhow. later in the game tho the usefulness of this diminishes.

1/1/1->3/3/3. nice. not terribly space or money efficient using those early techs tho. cost you about 100bc and most of your space to do that on a medium hull i think, but you didn't have to do alot of research so...

40/40/36->52/52/48. that take 4 of each of the top defense techs tho. lot of space not used for weapons or engines there. unless your riding military bonuses to get there it just is not practical at that point. better to specialize later in the game. by later i mean sooner

and yep, tho the devs have said that it is 0-n on both weapons and armor i have never seen a 0 dmg where armor was not involved, and if i don't think i failed to notice an attack not reported due to a 0 attk(possibly i did tho). so i work on the 1-n attack and 0-n defense theory.

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(at least I've never seen an attack roll 0 to undefended ship).

I have. And let me tell you, I was ready to set fire to the computer when it happened.

Before the "Are defenses too expensive" thread made me realize that heavy defenses are counterproductive, I was building ships with enormous defensive strength and only moderate firepower.

A dreadnought fired 3 nano rippers at an unprotected Dread Lord fighter. I guess they bounced off the paint or something, because there was no damage. When fired back, that fighter ignored 12 ult invulnerability fields and killed my dreadnought in a single shot.

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Me-huge hull
30 ATK - just phasors.
18-24 DFS - Arnorian armor

Comp-medium
16 ATK - rail gun (forget which)
Absolutely no defense.

I've been catching single ships all by their lonesome and would go at 'em with just one of mine. Both had full HP. There were no starbases nearby to lend a hand to either. I was constantly getting nailed for 14+ damage. Sometimes 20+. I was hitting them for around 5-6 each round. Once I actually got up to 10! WOOT!!!1!

Oh yeah, I was also playing as Humans. I was constantly at war with the Arceans. I wa playing at the difficulty level one past Tough. (I forget). I also had an Attack(?) resource fully mined.

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I'm playing a game right now (Tough level) where the Drengins and I are at war. My ships are 24 missile offense and 30 missile defense. His ships are missile offense from 16 to 31 (I've only seen one or two at 31, some are 27 or and most are 24 or below). He has some laser defense on some ships (5 to 7). This is from an earlier war when I had lasers. When we called a truce, I started researching missiles instead and when he decided to attack me again, I had fully researched missile defense and some decent missile offense as well.

Anyway, just about every attack, whether my fleet goes against his fleets, or my fleets go against his individual ships, his ships barely do any damage. Almost always a 0, actually. And in 1-2 shots, his ships are taken out. Except there are two planets, where any ship I've taken down from orbit has NAILED my ships, taking them down to just a couple hitpoints left. I haven't seen anything on his planets that would indicate any special orbital defense abilities. He's still using missiles and does not have any missile defense. In these instances, _my_ ships are rolling low numbers, and if I didn't have a fleet, he'd be killing my ships easily.

But this war is almost over. His planets are slowly becoming mine, he has gone from the top dog in the galaxy to last. And he's begged me twice to end the war and I've refused. The Drengin do not deserve to live.

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