A Winstep man?  

Why is it 'sadly' for you? I enjoy it tremendously.

I'll let Jorge know. He's been pretty busy with a brand new boy - his first, but I'll be sure to let him know, mkssms.

Garotinho adorável!      

Thank you for taking the time to respond in this forum. The picture is enough of an explanation for any delay in Winstep updates.

I have three minor but nagging issues with Winstep Xtreme that have already been addressed by others in the Winstep forums without an answer.

1. Docks, shelves, and modules forgetting their position when screen resolution changes happen.

2. The weather module becoming 12 hours out of sync. Showing the moon during the day and the sun at night.

3. Gridstacks opening behind open windows.

These are the main reasons that I have moved away from Winstep Xtreme. They all happen intermittently, but can become quite annoying over time.

The last issue I hesitate to bring up (fools rush in where angels fear to tread), but I know from comments in this and the Winstep forum, it is important. If I am out of line asking please say so. I'm sure that there is more to the situation than I understand.

Many of us would like to see some new Winstep themes. The only person that I am aware of that has any interest in making more Winstep themes is Picco14. He has shared images of these new themes in this forum and on WinCustomize. Due to a rift that has opened up between yourself, the Winstep moderator, and Picco14, he has decided to no longer post his themes for download. I've read his comments in both forums, and I believe he is looking for some specific answers to questions that have been asked but not answered. Is it possible to remedy this situation? Theming does appear to be a dying art, but many of us are not ready to bury it quite yet.

Thank you again for taking the time. I enjoy Winstep Xtreme, and even though I have replaced its functions with other pieces of software, the ability of Winstep Xtreme to put it all in one very high quality package is missed.

There are mechanisms in place for this not to happen, and as you are about to understand this is not as simple as you might think it is at first glance.

First, are or were you running v24.4?

Anyway, there are two or even three sort-of conflicting issues here:

1. When you change screen resolution, WorkShelf has to make sure everything is still on screen otherwise you would not be able to access or even see that particular screen object and drag it back. 

So, if you change to a lower screen resolution and this would result in, say, the desktop weather module now being off-screen, WorkShelf automatically moves it back into the available screen area.

Likewise, docks must fit on the screen in their entirety - WorkShelf will automatically reduce icon size to enforce this if necessary.

2. Desktop modules have different shapes and sizes according to the current theme. As such, desktop modules neatly arranged by the user in such a way that they are nicely positioned and don't overlap each other when using theme x, would or could overlap (or simply look oddly positioned) when switching to theme y if the size/shape of the modules was different and the modules remained in the same position.

WorkShelf thus remembers the position of the open desktop modules on a PER THEME base. Switch to a different theme and it will either auto-arrange the modules so they fit on the screen without overlapping each other (if this is the first time you apply that theme) or they will retrieve their previous position for that particular theme.

This is further complicated by the fact that you might actually switch to a different screen resolution, in which case the module positions remembered for that particular theme no longer apply. Therefore, the position of modules is remembered not only in terms of the current theme but also of the current screen resolution.

3. This was complicated enough for single monitor systems, but with the generalization of multi-monitor systems it became even more complex eheh. Now you also have to take into account the existence (or not) of extra monitors, their individual screen resolutions, etc..

Furthermore, you might want two docks when running with two monitors, one in each monitor, but only one dock when using a single monitor (e.g. when attaching an external monitor to a laptop, etc...) or some variation of this.

So, in v18.2 I added automatic multi-monitor profiles, a functionality that is enabled by default but can be disabled in WorkShelf Preferences -> General tab -> Disable multi-monitor profiles (although I have no idea why anyone would want to disable that).

This allows not only different dock/shelf/drawer positions for different multi-monitor configurations AND screen resolutions as well as the ability to enable/disable certain docks/shelves/drawers according to the same criteria. As you switch to a different resolution or turn monitors on and off, the previous configuration is automatically saved and remembered.

Desktop modules were actually excluded from the multi-monitor profiles and used a different method which did not take into account multi-monitor systems, but in v24.4 those too were consolidated into the multi-monitor profiles mechanism, while retaining the ability to be positioned differently according to the current theme.

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Warned ya it might not be as simple as you initially thought.

One major wrench in all of this: Winstep applications are high-DPI compatible but they are NOT per-monitor high DPI compatible. In practice this means all monitors MUST have the same screen DPI (e.g. all 100% or all 125%) otherwise Windows will *literally* lie to the Winstep application about screen resolutions etc. As you can imagine, that can wreak havoc in this beautiful picture.

Not sure what is happening there, but I would need more information from you to figure out what the problem might be in your case (e.g.; perhaps the fact that switching themes automatically affected the position of desktop modules - or even the way the multi-monitor profiles work - led you into thinking this was an issue?).

There is also something else that might have something to do with it: from what I have been told by more than one Winstep user, the new version of Start11 (v2?) seems to have a bug with reserved screen areas (i.e. areas on the screen edges that are not covered by maximized windows) where it reserves an excessive amount of space thus squashing everything in the middle of the screen - at least this happens when Nexus Ultimate/Winstep Xtreme is also running (and I suspect other applications that also reserve screen areas).

I would need you to tell me your location, the location the weather module points to, and a log of the weather info retrieved by the module which you can obtain by going to the Weather Settings dialog, clicking the Get Weather button, and then navigating to C:\Users\Public\Documents\WinStep where you should find a file named Weather.log. Send this info/file to the Winstep support address or open a new topic in the Winstep forums.

Whether a moon or a sun appear as the icon depend on the local time information retrieved from the weather feed, and this can be provided in local or UTC. Since I live in Portugal, for me they are one and the same and I would thus never see this happening here, but assuming one when it is the other can result in what you are describing - it happened before with the Weather.com feed and was fixed at the time, but I'm not 100% sure about the MSN feed (which is the only feed still active at this point) as the code used to decode the info is different.

Provided you are opening the Grid Stack by clicking an icon on the parent dock (which brings the Winstep application to the foreground), that should not happen unless the window above the Grid Stack is set to "always on top". I'm not seeing Grid Stacks opening behind other windows here.

Any steps to reproduce?

You're not out of line for asking.

Years ago before there was a Wincustomize, the default site for skins, themes, etc for different applications was called Skinz.org. There was a Winstep/NextSTART section there with HUNDREDS of different themes.

Unfortunately Skinz.org belonged to a marketing company called eFront. Unfortunately because a major scandal erupted when ICQ logs between eFront's CEO and other employees were leaked. You can read more about this HERE. To cut a long story short Skinz.org did not survive the scandal, which also directly led to Stardock's decision to create WinCustomize in order to fill the huge gap left by Skinz.org demise.

Right before Skinz.org lights were turned off, Shoggot (back then the admin of the site) allowed me to download the hundreds of Winstep/NextSTART themes hosted there (which I still have), but, despite this and all his goodwill, there was nothing I could do with those themes as I did not have permission from the respective authors to post them somewhere else.

As you can imagine, it was a really painful experience for me to see so many beautiful Winstep themes becoming lost forever.

Fortunately back then there were some minor skin/customization sites that also hosted a Winstep section, so some of the themes survived. As of 2025 I believe only Wincustomize is left in practice.

So, to prevent something like this from happening again, not that long ago and once I was able to, I paid a web developer to create a Winstep Gallery (not open to the public) into which I have been asking some of the theme authors to upload their themes into (it currently has a couple of hundred themes, including all the themes from the late Stephen Welsh aka WebGizmos, who I always considered a friend). This gallery uses the same logins/accounts as the Winstep forums, so that theme authors may retain FULL access to their themes (including the ability to delete them if they so wish). It supports screenshots, user ratings, comments, etc..., i.e. the basics.

Because I also happen to like Picco's themes a lot, I asked him multiple times to please upload his themes into the Winstep gallery. He NEVER replied.

So, when he posted those skinning questions and requests in the Winstep forums, I asked him yet again, but this time in public to see if I would at least get an answer. Despite the fact that he would retain full control over his themes, he refused claiming that he makes the themes for himself, only values the user feedback he gets and doesn't care a bit if they get lost forever. His themes, his decision (as was mine not to answer his questions/requests because of this attitude, but I am not even upset, just sad).

I'm sorry he is "punishing" all of you now by refusing to upload his new themes to Wincustomize, but - again - that is up to him.

The thread is still there somewhere in the Winstep forums for anyone who wants to read it.

Perhaps that is indeed the problem. I fully encourage users to play with the settings to figure out all that the Winstep application can do (and that is a good part of the fun) but at the same time I also advise them to backup their current stable configuration first (Preferences -> Advanced tab -> Backup button) lest they back themselves up (no pun intended lol) into a corner.

For extra protection users can use the built-in Alarm Manager to create an alarm that runs the "Auto Backup Settings' internal command every month, for instance. This will automatically backup both WorkShelf and NextSTART settings (or Nexus Ultimate) without user intervention (and without deleting previous automatic backups).

Anyway, intermittent and impossible to reproduce issues are extremely difficult to diagnose. Many times the problem is not even in the application itself but in something that is system specific. Over the years I collected many hair pulling stories where this was the case. 

One thing for certain: the program does NOT do too much, it does what it does, but sometimes it has to fight against what Windows allows it to do and not. For instance, after XP (IIRC) "legally" you can only bring a window to the foreground if your application is already in the foreground (or if you are the user) - this was Microsoft's way to fight against those pesky "look at me, I'm more important than you" applications (like Microsoft's own Outlook lol) that kept shoving notification pops up in the user's face. 

They completely disregarded the fact that there are some applications running in the background that might have very legit reasons to bring a window into the foreground even when they do not have the focus - instead of letting the user vote with their feet regarding the misbehaving applications, they went all "I know better than you" and enforced the above rule. As a result, applications now have to resort to tricks to bring a window to the foreground when they do not have the focus, and these tricks can sometimes fail under specific circumstances - so, not only did Microsoft NOT fix the issue, as it just caused even more problems.

Indeed.

Ah! If you can, please first try the steps I mentioned for the weather module and let me know. If you are quick and there is indeed a bug in terms of the UTC/local zone for sunrise and sunset times, I can still include the fix in the v25.2 release.

Also, if you are going to run the Winstep application on 24H2 you will need the v25.2 release or you will not be able to access the system tray via NextSTART due to the further changes Microsoft made to the systray code in this version of Windows 11. Sigh.

Catch 22 lol

My weather module is working fine at the moment. The issue last happened several months ago and that was the second time in about two years. Both times I had been using another program for the weather (Rainmeter or Xwidget), and when I switched to the Winstep module the issue occurred. There was a moon during the day and sunshine at night. The interesting thing is that the temperature was correct. I did check the weather monitor settings and everything was correct. I stopped and restarted the module and rebooted the computer and nothing changed. Both times everything was back to normal within 24 hours. The second time it happened I did search the Winstep forums and found another user had reported the same problem. I believe his weather module also was back to normal the next day and you never were able to find out what caused it.

Thank you for taking time to explain these things in detail, JcRabbit! Appreciated! I have saved this post for future reference.

I actually didn't intend for you to get involved in this discussion and I didn't mean to blame you or Winstep Xtreme. I just meant to agree with the request to add a speaking clock to Start11 or ObjectDock. DrJBHL kindly offered to get you involved, and by the time I read his response, I thought it would be too late to say don't bother. I did research all of these issues in the Winstep forums, and seeing that all of them were brought up before without a solution, I didn't think it was worth submitting them again. Especially since they were so intermittent.

Having worked in technical support for many years, worked with a programmer to beta test a piece of software, and played around with computer programming (unsuccessfully I will add) a long time ago, I do have a fair idea of what is happening under the hood.

I have used Rainmeter, Rainlendar, XWidget, XLaunchpad, and Rocketdock with gridstacks and multiple docks (it is possible), both separately and together for many years without any of the problems I mentioned I was having when using Winstep Xtreme. The problems with docks, shelves, and modules forgetting their position, and gridstacks opening behind open windows, are more frequent than the weather module issue. Just frequent enough to be frustrating. 

I stopped using Winstep Xtreme, except for that wonderful speaking clock, a couple of months ago and switched to Rainmeter, XWidget, and Rocketdock. All of the problems except the clock module moving off screen have disappeared. I would much rather use Winstep Xtreme, but the only solution that I have found so far is hide the dock or shelf off-screen. That seems to solve the problems of screen position changing (except the modules), and gridstacks opening behind open windows. It's not the solution I would like, but it seems to be the only answer so far.

Again thank you for your detailed responses, and thank you for explaining to all of us who wondered, about the situation with Picco14.  I did learn more about what makes Winstep Xtreme work, and maybe it will help me to find a solution to the issues I am experiencing.

I'm happy there is a new version of Winstep Xtreme coming out and I will test it on Windows 11 24H2. I haven't given up on it yet. Maybe it will be the answer on my system.

See, after the detailed explanation I gave you on how one of the top priorities of the Winstep application in regards to screen resolution changes etc is NOT having objects appear completely off-screen, I find that hard to believe (not doubting your word, just that this is a "bug" in Winstep Xtreme).

I also have a multi-monitor system here and I don't see this happening EVER. I don't remember anyone complaining about desktop modules appearing off-screen either (not saying it never happened, just that I don't remember).

Did you actually open a topic regarding this on the Winstep forums so this issue can be troubleshooted? If not, can you please point me to a topic on the Winstep forums where something like - or similar to - this is described without resolution?

I cannot fix what I do not know about, and it's extremely hard to fix any issues I cannot reproduce here.

The only way I see something like this happening is if your monitors have different screen DPIs, because, as I mentioned, Winstep applications are NOT *per monitor* high DPI compatible. All monitors MUST have the same DPI (Windows Settings -> System -> Display -> Scale ) or you will experience weird positioning, etc, issues.

Picco,

I would like to apologize for getting you into this mess. I've seen nothing but the greatest respect and admiration for your talents in these forums. I've enjoyed your themes since I started using Winstep and was saddened by your departure. I don't think that anyone here thinks you have been childish. You have always behaved as a gentleman. As I stated before, I thank you for your generosity in donating your talent and time. They are yours to give as you see fit.

What a surprise it was to consult this post on the speaking clock and see my nickname (Picco14) quoted several times and see the display of disagreements even friendly that I could have with "Winstep.net". I had always refused to talk about it on the site "Wincustomize". I always thought that it should remain private and not mix all that with "Wincustomize", but someone decided otherwise without my consent. Fortunately not everything has been said and all that must remain there, but I had the duty to answer.
The case is closed, everything must remain there...
Sincerely...