I'd rather have something that scales, so they can start out weak and grow stronger over time (instead of the opposite). But that's just my opinion. Although the fact that we'd be getting free defense isn't great, it's a simple solution to the problem.

Another solution could be monster-specific traits that give them +defense. So we'd have the option of growing that in them.

My only issue with that would be a hero who can't equip any armor and then being level 1o with only 10 defence.  It's better than 0 but still not that great. 

Or we could combine our ideas, a base defence per unusable armor slot with a +1 per level?  

The way to solve the leveling problem is create a specific trait that scales the defense as per how the monster rating goes up.  Some do not gain any defense regardless of their spawn level while others do.  It is not hard so much as time consuming but it is a large change to how difficult monsters get and are for tamed beasts.  This may also make summons stronger as when they are spawned they do not gain the bonuses for higher level until the summoners level rating goes up then you can dismiss and resummon and even if the original one leveled up the new one will be stronger because of the higher initial spawn rating.  Heavenfall can confirm or correct where I have misunderstood the game mechanics but this is how I have interpreted it for a while now.

Yall are dragging this thread off-topic. This thread is really about monster heroes, ie champions, that don't hold up to much compared to any humanoid hero. They have a whole different need to scale than the monsters you can recruit through various means because champions are supposed to last the entire game.

I'm not really worried about static monsters because as the game progresses monsters should be of little factor.  A civilization returns, monster should change from the major threat to moderate threat to no threat with the other nations being the major threats.

Exactly, low defense monsters are supposed to be irrelevant later in the game. Champions on the other hand need to scale with the progression of the empire to stay relevant. Monster champions don't do this. All you can really get them is weapons, accessories and shields. This is a huge problem because it makes monster champions highly undesirable to pursue - a gimmick.

Regardless of how you'd like normal monster units to work, the fact is that the game is designed around monsters growing obsolete and champions scaling with the progression of the game. Monster champions do not do this nearly as well as other heroes, making them bad.

Now, you can say "I'd like monsters to scale as well" but that's a whole different discussion and not at all the same as saying "I'd like monster champions to scale as well as other champions".

Yes.  Playable race heroes get the General Tab for perks.  Each race of monster should get their own version of the General tab.

Actually, ideally each race including playable races should have their own General tab.  Replace the word General with the name of the race.  I don't know about anybody else, but the only General perk I ever take is Potential 1.  I might have taken Quick as an experiment once, but don't anymore.  The General tab could use this race specific spicing up - make the perks useful.

Then, when designing a custom race the player will have points to spend towards General tab perks.  And maybe also the choice to design 2 or 3 race specific heroes to add to the random pool.

I always thought the best answer to giving player controlled monsters scaling defense would be a serious of upgradeable items. Thus instead of armor they would get a belt or mark that is unlocked by the same tech and acts like armor without the visual component. It would only be useable by monsters and would keep them relevant all game. 

I don't mind monsters becoming obsolete; i only mind that monster champions have no special path to claim. I would also like to see Sarog become fearsome.

Really? No "final boss" quest enemy should have VulnerableToAnything, and should have more defense abilities.

I am probably misreading this altogether, but wow. For a final boss, he doesn't scream "Holy Crap!"

Lack of defence is certainly one problem with the monster hero types but a bigger one is their lack of movement. Most seem to only move 2 tiles. If they can't move 4 like a human hero when mounted on a horse then they are of very limited use. 

Moving at half speed means they are about half as useful strategically and often tactically as well.  Worse than that they slow down the army they are stacked with.  Currently all end game trained units are mounted on horses or wargs.

If non human heroes are to be competative with human ones they need  a method of boosting their speed (maybe a promotion) as well as having sufficient defence.

JJ

Or how about letting them purchase armor ... but make it cost extra ... 'cause it has to be specially fitted or custom tailored, or whatever.

Maybe extra gildar, extra metal, extra crystal ... something like that.  Or have a special building they can go to for purchases.

@animageous:

Barkspawn did not stink in DAO.  His early AOE stun was sweet, and overpower(?right word?) is a mage-killer.  Program his behavior to overpower mage in the first slot and watch him go around eating mages.