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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
+17

Trying to figure out how to make this work, please take a look.

October 8, 2012 5:32:22 PM from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

This is just something I was thinking and I haven't really figured out how to simulate it yet. There may be some creative way to suspend disbelief enough that you "feel" like it is working, even if it isn't exactly working the way you hoped.

 

Already in my game, I changed all the populations to be by a factor of 10, so instead of let's saying having a 1000 people in your empire (which in my opinion is just ridiculous) it would be 10,000. So, that is simple to do and I like it personally in my game.

 

What I want to do, is try to figure out a way so that you have the illusion of more men then you actually do. Right now you get units that have 3, 4, 5, etc. men in the unit. I want to find a way to make it seem like there are more people. I was curious if anyone had any creative ideas on how we could make something that has the illusion of more people. I know it would be impossible to have like 30 men in a unit (and actually see those 30 men) for obvious reasons (not enough memory, etc.)

 

Yes, you could just imagine there are 3 men representing 30, or just imagine the hp is the amount of men in the unit, etc. but it's not really doing it for me so I am trying to figure out a way to make it seem more like having a large army, without actually "having" a large army. I hope I am making sense here.

 

Any ideas?

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BlackRainZ
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
+441
Reply #1 October 8, 2012 5:39:49 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I hope I am making sense here.

Well, there's always hope!

You could change the name of the group sizes, 3-man squad becomes 30-man squad for example.

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BlackRainZ
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #2 October 8, 2012 5:50:25 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Also, have you considered increasing the amount of men in each unit, but keeping the model count the same? By using CoreFormations.xml

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 October 8, 2012 6:45:19 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Hmmm. I haven't thought of that. Let me try it out.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #4 October 8, 2012 7:46:08 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Doesn't seem to work. I tried changing the numbers there and it still shows up in game as the default numbers. The edit should have worked but it didn't for some reason. Maybe there is another file which also edits this?


It also doesn't appear that building soldiers uses population anyway. I built several and pop did not change.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #5 October 8, 2012 7:51:01 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I saw this code

 

<TrainingUnitsConsumesPop>1</TrainingUnitsConsumesPop>

 

in elementaldefs but I don't think it is working.

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BlackRainZ
seanw3
Join Date 12/2007
+141
Reply #6 October 9, 2012 1:03:33 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

What about doing 5-10-15 for army sizes and limiting the number of units in an army to 6?

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BlackRainZ
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
+206
Reply #7 October 9, 2012 1:25:59 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


Try editing the CoreUnitGroupingTypes.xml

edit: It does actually change the troop count. I've checked. The problem is the formation is all messed up, don't know how to fix that. I suspect it has to do with the CoreFormation.xml.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #8 October 9, 2012 6:46:04 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

What do you mean exactly sean?


Do you mean edit coreformations to use 5, instead of 3, 10 instead of 4, etc.?

I will edit those numbers and see if anything happens.

 

The game does not use population to make soldiers though. Even with default settings, no population gets used when recruiting.

 

I will look at coreunitgroupingtypes now.

 

Also, as far as I know, there is no way to add more actual soldiers into the unit in coreformations because it requires a positioning of which I have no idea to figure out beyond the highest formation already there. 

 

What I mean is, there are numbers in there which places the graphic for the soldier at a specific spot. It goes up to 10 I think with 10 graphics (soldiers) showing at different positions. However, I have no idea how I would be able to add more there because of not know which number (position) to put in.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #9 October 9, 2012 6:55:25 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I was just thinking something, maybe the reason why it didn't work when i edited coreformations with different numbers (20 instead of 2) etc. is because maybe it requires adding in another soldier with a position.

 

What I mean is this. This is an example of the code currently:

 

<UnitFormations>

<UnitFormation InternalName="Party V - 2">
<TroopCount>2</TroopCount>

<UnitFormationPosition InternalName="Position0">
<Position>-18, 0</Position>
<LODLevel>-1</LODLevel>
<ReplacedBy></ReplacedBy>
<LeaderPosition>1</LeaderPosition>
<AttackingPosition>1</AttackingPosition>
</UnitFormationPosition>

<UnitFormationPosition InternalName="Position1">
<Position>18, 0</Position>
<LODLevel>-1</LODLevel>
<ReplacedBy></ReplacedBy>
<LeaderPosition>0</LeaderPosition>
<AttackingPosition>1</AttackingPosition>
</UnitFormationPosition>

</UnitFormation>

 

I just changed the "2" to "20". However, it may not have worked because it was possibly looking for the code to accompany it, meaning adding a new unit at a new "position". What do you guys think?

 

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BlackRainZ
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #10 October 9, 2012 6:57:57 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I don't think any of us have messed with those files before, so you'll need to experiment and see what works for you.

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BlackRainZ
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #11 October 9, 2012 6:59:57 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

You can make trained units require population by putting this in all trainable units in CoreUnits.xml

    <ProductionRequirement InternalName="_ISGolemRace">
      <Type>Resource</Type>
      <Attribute>Population</Attribute>
      <Value>1</Value>
    </ProductionRequirement>

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #12 October 9, 2012 7:09:47 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

ISGolemRace?


Why is that part of the code?

 

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BlackRainZ
Heavenfall
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #13 October 9, 2012 7:18:39 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Because I copypasted from my golem faction. Just remove that bit.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #14 October 9, 2012 7:33:02 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

ah hehe okay. 

 

It seems when you change coreunitgrouping types it does work but the problem is that now you have them doing dmg of 5 x 30 instead of 5 x 3 and hp of 8 x 30 instead of 8 x 3.

 

This could be fixed by changing every weapon to be divided by 10 but champions would be affected. Perhaps weapons and armor could be duplicated to have units use the ones divided by 10 but champions use the normal ones?


HP would also have to be changed I assume hmm.


Also it makes the graphics look a little crazy because it has so many men. In battle they jumble up into one guy and then when attacking or getting hit it shows a bunch of guys in a line haha and then returns to one spot.


I could just make units consume population value of 10 instead of 1 and pretend that 3 guys is 30 but I don't know if that will do it for me ugh. 


Can't think of any creative ideas, anyone else have any ideas? I really want to say if I can make the game a little more on the grand scale of things.

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BlackRainZ
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
+206
Reply #15 October 10, 2012 10:55:00 AM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums


That is the same effect that I got when fiddling with the coreunitgroup.xml

The problem with grouping is that they now need a coreformation for that size. You are adding 30 units on the screen. The only way to find the positions is by editing the coreformation info slowly. The attack x 30 is basically they calculate the attack for each of the 30 units separately and so it is not a strict multiplyer to the damage.

You can create separate weapons between hero's and units, but that will take some time to do. Also, you might have to scale your troops down to make the formations fit onto the square to which they are located.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #16 October 10, 2012 4:54:41 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Yes but 30 x 5 damage means more dmg, it doesn't matter if it is a multiplier or not because it will still do 30 attacks rather than 3. 

 

Yeah I know separating weapons and armor is doable but time consuming. 

 

The problem is, that I have no idea how I would add 30, 40, 50, etc different soldiers into core formations. How would you know what position to put them at?


I wouldn't mind scaling the units down (although I don't know how to do that since I never tried), it is just the problem of actually being able to put them in coreformations.

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BlackRainZ
Glowing_Ember
Join Date 09/2010
+14
Reply #17 October 10, 2012 5:59:07 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I know that they can scale down pretty small. I've had soldiers hit with multiple shrink spells

and they get ===>> ooo|   ..p... |ooo  <<=== thiiiis big lol had to take a double look at the screen to see if my unit was still at full strength since they only shrink the front soldier.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #18 October 10, 2012 6:46:53 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I know it happens but what to change in the XML to make it be a default thing, I don't know. Haven't looked into it.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #19 October 10, 2012 7:01:03 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

It seems like I can just edit this code to all units

 

<ModelScale>1</ModelScale>

 

to whatever I want to change their size (I am assuming)

 

That solves that issue. So I can change their size to make it smaller so more fit, that is fine. I can change stats of weapons and armor to make it work too. 

 

The problem now is positioning of all the units. Need to think about it.

 

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #20 October 10, 2012 7:14:23 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Okay, that scales them on the world map which I don't need to do I think. I want to scale them on the tactical map really. Let me look more.

 

--edit-- nevermind, found it

 

<TacticalModelScale>0.8</TacticalModelScale>

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BlackRainZ
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #21 October 10, 2012 7:23:29 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Quoting parrottmath,
reply 16
The attack x 30 is basically they calculate the attack for each of the 30 units separately and so it is not a strict multiplyer to the damage.

The problem is that the damage done if you nerf it by x10 down. All you are doing is adding clink damage and so nothing will get through. It might be easier to scale the hitpoints on heros abnoxiously high to get the correct balance... I'm not really sure.

When I get home I'll play with the coreformation.xml and stuff to see if I can reproduce a 15 unit. (30 is just gonna be too much to start with)

I'm thinking putting the formation like this.

    x

   x x

  x x x

 x x x x

x x x x x

Of course maybe I'll just have it like

x x x x x

x x x x x

x x x x x

To make life easy. We'll see.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #22 October 10, 2012 7:35:09 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

That is only if I leave the armor as is, I would have to edit armor too.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #23 October 10, 2012 7:39:20 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

I am playing around with the formations now, will let you know what I find out in a minute.

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BlackRainZ
BlackRainZ
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #24 October 10, 2012 7:46:17 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

Okay, I was able to get it so that it wouldn't have that strange graphical glitch by putting in more positions. It didn't look too bad either, except for a couple of guys being very close or sort of partly in another guy but it wasn't too bad.

 

However, it seems the most men that can be shown in a unit in the tactical battle is 20, it will not show more then that apparently and on the strategic map the most it will show is 9 I think. This may not necessarily be that bad, as when one guy dies, it still shows 20 until it gets lower then 20, then it will show 19, so on and so forth.

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BlackRainZ
parrottmath
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #25 October 10, 2012 7:51:37 PM
from Elemental ForumsElemental Forums

That was kind of your goal right. I'm glad you got something like this workin for you. I didn't think editing the formations would have been extremely difficult to accomplish (difficult to get it to look right yes). So, now if there was a way of getting the unit count to be 30 and 50 and show a visual difference between the two stacks... I'm at a loss for that one. Can't wait to see your final product here.

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