Titan are too easy to build (same for novas)

KL3MZ

Join Date 12/2007

Titan are too easy to build (same for novas)

Well, i just tested, 15 min after the start, i have my titan

this is way too fast as the titans are virtually invulnerable to whatever other players can have at the begining. The only defence is a turret spam, and turrets don't move ^^

Also, i figured the only way to kill a titan would be a massive heavy cruiser spam (as flak dies to titans very fast, the fighters take the bombers out easy)

i might be wrong but after testing it in mp, loyalist titan just dosen't want to die.

Also, the loyalist nova is ... too easy to spam, its a mp killer, with 2 nova (roughly 20k credit worth - or 15k with the cost decrease tech)

there is no real counter to it since it kills the enemy economy even if they sb'd every planet they have (witch is way more expensive then making novas)

I want a disable super weapon option! Or at the very least, put a weapon failure algorythm they're experimental anyway, make em blow up for weapon malfunction once in a while ^^

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Quoting KL3MZ,

reply 138

Dude if you can't understand that between 15min and 30min there is a 15min difference, then i can't help you.

Its called the difference between early, and mid game

i only play 4s and 5s there in those there is no difference between the first 15 and 30min. one person on both sides should rush for a titan the other should focus on econ and fleet. in a 3s a titan rush is a lil harder everyone should focus on fleet or econ then titans and on 1s and 2s a titan rush is pure stupidity it far to easy to die on those trying to get a titan out

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Quoting martox1,

reply 137

if the way u suggest to get the titan it would cost 25500 credits 3245 metal 3365 crystal not including the cost of the logistics slot increase and research cost for it would probably go up making the total cost go up even more the titan is good and i love using it but it is not worth that damn much

and again it does NOT matter where u put the titan at on the tech tree ppl will still have them in 30 mins in online games it something new that i guess u havent heard of yets its called FEEDING....

Those are valid points. The titan is probably not worth that much. Although the resources investment required to build the starbase that would only slowdown the experienced titan would be comparable to that. I'm not suggesting the dev's wouldn't want to make any cost adjustments.

The main purpose of my suggestion was to make construction of the titan take more time and give other players more notification of progress, regardless of how much resources the builder has access to. Obviously the programmers dont yet know how (or they just messed up the code somewhere) to trigger notification to other players based on production progress. Perhaps dividing titan production into 4 purchases will allow the devs to accomplish that.

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Quoting martox1,

reply 151

Quoting KL3MZ, reply 138Dude if you can't understand that between 15min and 30min there is a 15min difference, then i can't help you.

Its called the difference between early, and mid game

i only play 4s and 5s there in those there is no difference between the first 15 and 30min. one person on both sides should rush for a titan the other should focus on econ and fleet. in a 3s a titan rush is a lil harder everyone should focus on fleet or econ then titans and on 1s and 2s a titan rush is pure stupidity it far to easy to die on those trying to get a titan out

Rushing to a titan in a 5v5 match is not a good strategy. You lose too much ground

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Quoting JohnJames,

reply 153

Quoting martox1, reply 151
Quoting KL3MZ, reply 138Dude if you can't understand that between 15min and 30min there is a 15min difference, then i can't help you.

Its called the difference between early, and mid game

i only play 4s and 5s there in those there is no difference between the first 15 and 30min. one person on both sides should rush for a titan the other should focus on econ and fleet. in a 3s a titan rush is a lil harder everyone should focus on fleet or econ then titans and on 1s and 2s a titan rush is pure stupidity it far to easy to die on those trying to get a titan out

Rushing to a titan in a 5v5 match is not a good strategy. You lose too much ground

like u wont lose ground rushing for them on the others either

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sareth01

Join Date 08/2008

+50

Rushing to a titan in a 5v5 match is not a good strategy. You lose too much ground

JJ you made a blanket statement about military strategy, i've gotta intervene .

IN the case of a 2v1, where you and your buddy have the guy surrounded, one putting pressure on him while the other techs titan is a GREAT way to really screw him utterly as all the early feed he will get won't allow him to build a titan and protect his world effectively while doing so.

2v1's happen all the time, so be prepared for a titan on your ass asap. Teching a titan should cost more in labs and research to ensure HC's have a place in mid-game gameplay, titans need not be higher then tech 5 or 6(I would prefer tech lvl 8). Tech 8 is totally doable and can be rushed.

Good luck defending against that early built titan. 2v1's are hard enough to face, now even unskilled players will quickly learn to do this.

As it stands players are foregoing the critical "first clash with enemy forces" to instead build titans that with a few heals are going to dominate early game fleets, completely ignoring the complex set of counters that already exist on the frigate side of things.

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Quoting sareth01,

reply 156

Rushing to a titan in a 5v5 match is not a good strategy. You lose too much ground

JJ you made a blanket statement about military strategy, i've gotta intervene .

IN the case of a 2v1, where you and your buddy have the guy surrounded, one putting pressure on him while the other techs titan is a GREAT way to really screw him utterly as all the early feed he will get won't allow him to build a titan and protect his world effectively while doing so.

2v1's happen all the time, so be prepared for a titan on your ass asap.

Well 2v1 and 3v1 have different constraints. Heck I've had 4 people on me before.

I've seen guys not take a single planet and just make 4 mil at homeworld which does save them much time from the lost resource they would have gotten if they didnt colonize a little just to get a titan out 1 or 2 mins earlier.

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Quoting martox1,

reply 155

Quoting JohnJames, reply 153
Quoting martox1, reply 151
Quoting KL3MZ, reply 138Dude if you can't understand that between 15min and 30min there is a 15min difference, then i can't help you.

Its called the difference between early, and mid game

i only play 4s and 5s there in those there is no difference between the first 15 and 30min. one person on both sides should rush for a titan the other should focus on econ and fleet. in a 3s a titan rush is a lil harder everyone should focus on fleet or econ then titans and on 1s and 2s a titan rush is pure stupidity it far to easy to die on those trying to get a titan out

Rushing to a titan in a 5v5 match is not a good strategy. You lose too much ground

like u wont lose ground rushing for them on the others either

I guess we need to define what "rush" means. To me getting a titan out at 22/23 mins but having 20+ worlds isnt a rush, but a person who sacrifices getting any planets to get a titan out in 16/17 min time frame is a rush.

In 5v5 you are much closer to each other than a game in 3v3.

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sareth01

Join Date 08/2008

+50

Well 2v1 and 3v1 have different constraints. Heck I've had 4 people on me before.

I agree, we should balance somewhat for a 2v1 scenario though, somewhere between steamroll and stalemate for moderately skilled players(sins diplomacy has this).

This is the most difficult part of the game to have reasonable balance. Titans mow down frigate spam. Early game feed isn't strong enough to deal with that kind of titan firepower(feed being a 2v1's main hope), so instead of being able to hold out, players in 2v1's will HAVE to be supported by fleets. They won't get the resources they need because their feeders will know they are done for right at the start of the game, and its all about surviving at that point. So you will see 2v1's not getting feed unless they are able to accrue an early military advantage over their adversaries. Its human nature, you don't pick the fat kid in dodgeball because it won't help your team. So you will see more players becoming bitter about the random 2v1 scenarios that they have already lost and many will give up playing multiplayer.

Yes this affects long term player retention.

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I think if they could program the random maps so we can choose to be close to teammates or the map distributed evenly, might help the 2v1 scenarios

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sareth01

Join Date 08/2008

+50

well yes and no, it would be nice to always be near a team mate, but at the same time it would kill long term enjoyment because you would have fewer "I overcame extreme adversity to win!" moments that make sins such a good game.

I would say "hell yes" for a 2v2v2v2v2 setup, or a 3v3v3 setup to let players be near each other.

Honestly, they should make some game modes for 10 player modes that when selected allow you to choose starting positions near team mates. 5v5's can either be random as usual or be split down the middle with 3 eco types in the middle and 2 front liners.

So in essence, give players more game modes to play, and retain all the old options as well so that everyone wins.

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Titan total cost :

6500,1200,550 + 500,0,25 + 600,50,100 + 800,100,175 + 1000,150,250 + 750,60,80 + 750,60,80 + 750,60,80 + 750,60,80 + 2000,500,200 (or 1200,300,120 + 400,0,25 + 500,0,50 + 750,60,80 = 2850,360,275 ) + 1200,0,75 + 1400,115,225 + 400,0,25

Titan + titan techs + labs + factory ( or factory + modular architecture + civic lab ) + command points + fleet supply

So that gives a total of, 17400 credits, 2355 metal, 1945 cristal

( or 18250, 2215, 2020 (with modular architecture and civic lab)

now that this is said, i'm too lazy to say anything else ^^

(its enough to make 50 lrms)

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