pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Pacov's favorite dg game replays

Well, zen's got himself a nice thread going over here http://forums.demigodthegame.com/408072/page/3

Figure I'll join in. I had a game tonight that, perhaps I was just in a good mood, but was quite a bit of fun. You might want to watch this game just to ask yourself if you'd have been frustrated if you were me. Then ask yourself if you are on the other team how fugging frustrated you must have been.

It was a SUPER aggressive game... like the majority of each and EVERY encounter was to the death. The sedna on my team was interesting to say the least. No apparent understanding of sigils; no concept of getting healers (and it appeared to be a high level heal sedna no loss). The other team eventually adopted a "LET'S KILL SEDNA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE" strategy... which is really a "pacov... make sure you have full mana and pack lots and lots of tps" strategy for me. The best part of my no sigil sedna was how often he'd return at the right time for a kill. After being chased down and nearly killed (without a sigil or HEALERS no less), he'd be right back in there trying to pounce a speed da or ub... he saw me tp in, he'd turn around and give chase... even if he had like 800 hp.

Anyway, it was a really crazy game. You'll notice some quick nonsense at the beginning where I tell my teammate I'm getting clerics only to find out he didn't grab monks, but beyond that... its just an entertaining game of the other team trying to gank over and over and mostly me running in to try to save and then gank myself. It was nuts... my teammate would be about to die one second and doing silly things... then the next moment, going for a portal when he saw the opportunity. Its actually a really solid game for me as well... I think I made 1 error in judgment the entire game (and it didn't cost us a thing... not referring to the silliness at the beginning of the game.. that was bad...).

Anyway, watch away if you like. No mods required for this game.

CheesusCrust	Forces of Light	Lord Erebus	160	Won
mesoStoned	Forces of Light	Sedna	0	Lost *
UltraNoob33	Forces of Darkness	Demon Assassin	55	Lost
etasan	Forces of Darkness	Unclean Beast	0	Lost *

unfortunately, when etatsan quit before the game ended (like less than a minute) he took meso with him, so meso didn't get a win.

Link to the replay: http://www.box.net/shared/oar44z8hh1peklsdkus8

7/18/2011 -new replay

going to add the 1v1 vs papp I was tricked into (DIE_MINION!!!! YOU AFK BASTARD!!). Anyway, its 2 tier 1 folks fighting it out - I went reg vs tb, so slight adv to papp on dg selection. Pretty solid play that gives everyone a nice example of a tb trying to juke mines from a reg (and a reg trying to adjust to stop throwing the mines and pick where I think tb will end up) and a reg trying to compensate for a hybrid tb with 2 interrupts. Plus the usual reg trap fun. If you don't play alot of reg, this would be a good game to watch for how I try to set traps... pretty sure I tried to set > 10 in this game. TBH - I don't completely regret my decision to go early priests... part of me did it because I wanted to end the 1v1 (as it's not my fav game and pro 1v1's can take hours) and the other half of me was using it to distract ppap so he'd try to farm while I whittled down his towers by the portals. In hindsight, I'd probably have been better off to go cur2 and stall. I really don't suggest anyone go early (or late priests in a 1v1 unless you are up against someone with no aoe that hasn't picked up natures reck. I choose to for the reasons above (strategic and suicidal). ... anyway, here's the replay. No mods required to view. Adding this to the OP.

http://www.box.net/shared/f1y9ba44qr96nidjnk57

And just to clarify - the game was meant to be a 2v2 (zen+ppap vs pacov+die_minion). Die minion was afk and zen agreed to stay at base until minion came back... which he never did... so it became a 1v1.

And that said, ppap certainly beat me. Outside of the priest decision, I certainly played my best. Fun game and well played. You can even see me still trying to work it out late game with him having giants. I saw him linger after he got my portal before the tp, so I figured he probably couldn't relock or stop me from retaking. LOVE seeing players being very strategic and keeping the push on. Even after he fugged up by staying long enough for me to recap the portal. Very little lag. I think I wasn't able to adjust a total of 2 mine throws throughout the game. And that's pretty good. Sucks that I couldn't change them, but really... 2 misses because of lag the entire game is not so bad. Great game.

7/24/20111 - new replay

adding a replay so zen can't complain about my replays being crap anymore:

http://www.box.net/shared/a738r3ttapbdv5njfhhi

This one is me and mcbane vs nils and zen.

Mcshane and I get WAAAAYYY behind on ws and I change up tactics to harass the crap out of their portals (as I know we can't take them in combat). So, I do my dance and distract the crap out of the them was much as possible. Was a super fun game. Ended with me and mcshane holding 3 portals and nils banging away on the citadel with giants, etc. If we had been able to stop 1 more wave of creeps we'd have probably won it. Super fun game. Adding to op. If you want to see a super annoying sedna... watch

7/28/20111 - new replay

well, here we go. A new replay. This one is for you folks wondering about gaabriel. He tore up rin and thunder a wee bit in a 2v2 game tonight.

gaabriel	Forces of Light	Regulus	190	Won
CheesusCrust	Forces of Light	Sedna	120	Won
Thundercles	Forces of Darkness	Torch Bearer	40	Lost
TSK-Rin	Forces of Darkness	Queen of Thorns	0	Lost *

He bought cur1 and cur2. Solid play throughout on his part. He took HW and stole one wave from me. Asked him to stop and he was 100% after that first wave. No complaints. Got to play lazy never die sedna and relax most of the game.

Anyway, his strat was pretty damn solid. he was a low HP reg, but had a sigil pretty much 100% of the time after ws2 or 3. He's fight and get fugged up... then run, getting close to the point of death. I'd see this and light up my tp to come heal, he'd pop his sigil and his opponent would be forced to run thinkging FUUUUUGGGG. Sigils are crap value when you only get 1500 or so out of it, but he milked it perfectly. Folks generally assume there will be a pot to save more etc... but he always went for the good stuff even at a big cost to him. It paid off. Could hurt a hell of a lot in other games, but he scored quite a few solid kills using his kite (look at me I'm super low HP reg) and sigil method.

From playing this game, I think gaab is a much better reg than a sed. Or maybe perhaps he's just much better in 2v2. He did a great job and I pretty much was along for the ride.

http://www.box.net/shared/k84drdcdo6x0bf3ktzyx

7/28/20111 - new replay

just had a fun 2v2. thunder(hybrid tb) + pacov (never die sed (well i did die once )) vs zen's erb (he didn't just save for godplate to my chagrin) + ppap (hybrid tb). My team lost. I think the good things to watch were zen and ppap being super aggressive and mindful of the map for when to push and be obnoxious. I think I made a pretty solid decision pushing their portal when they were obssessed on trying to grab valor vs thunder. I think I had a VERY solid strat then anyway. I had just been "kinda" forced to run the crystal. I figure they were expecting me to come back to mid and fight, so I immediately ported over to hp and ran to their portal. They didn't even try to tp to me, so I'm pretty sure thunder put up a good show to keep their attention. Its difficult in pro games to get sneaky, but I think I pulled that off without them figuring out what I was doing as it was a pretty quick move.

They obsessed early on tearing down the middle towers. This is a GREAT end game strat as it means you can easily push for portals or valor. I don't have any major complaints about how my team played. I wish we'd have gotten giants as I had 2 waves pushing their cit solid at the end. Giants MIGHT (and it a big might) have made a difference in us killing their cit before they killed ours. I didn't really get to check thunders money situation out at the end, but I'd wager he was in the same boat as me (had 3800 or so when the game ended). I figured I needed to keep my kit, but in hindsight, they left me solo their cit for a bit, so I probably could have sold).

Other thoughts - I love that ppap can be made to obsess about siege archers, etc. He did a pretty solid job of handling them as I tried to walk them by him, but I, as a rule, just let those fuggers tear down my towers if I have to. I usually view leveling up and getting flag control as a higher priority than dicking around with the little guys. That said, I probably should have grabbed natures reck to compensate a bit as it was clear it was going to be archer fun from zen.

I also love and hate this sedna build. I absolutely hate lacking the dps I get from my fu die sedna build. I get that I really need to go with live forever sed in 2v2, but so often I'm thinking... wow.. I just pounced for 400 and they have 3k hp... wooo... check me out. I can silence them now and my teammate only needed to magically do 2600 dmg. fing low dmg build. Still... live forever is nice. But also boring... had a moment where it was me vs zen for like 2-3 minutes i think... him expecting me to run out of mana and run, me knowing I'd never get an adv on him, but there was no reason to run. Pretty boring, but oh well.

Here you go if you like:

http://www.box.net/shared/caaebnvjnlcy70rmrujp

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

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unfortunately, when etatsan quit before the game ended (like less than a minute) he took meso with him, so meso didn't get a win.

I so hate such things... When very difficult to carry teammate, you win, but your teammate doesn't...

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The other team eventually adopted a "LET'S KILL SEDNA AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE" strategy... which is really a "pacov... make sure you have full mana and pack lots and lots of tps" strategy for me. The best part of my no sigil sedna was how often he'd return at the right time for a kill. After being chased down and nearly killed (without a sigil or HEALERS no less), he'd be right back in there trying to pounce a speed da or ub... he saw me tp in, he'd turn around and give chase... even if he had like 800 hp.

Yummy! No healers, no sigils! That will be my next Sed build, I think. I will save it for Shane games, though...

You'll notice some quick nonsense at the beginning where I tell my teammate I'm getting clerics only to find out he didn't grab monks

Warning: a manifesto of Pacov hater follows.

You know, I hate to say it, but you communicate way too much. Really. I feel a need to elaborate here a bit. You are a great player. Personally, I think your strategical skills are up there with our Korean friends ppaparin -- and I'm talking strategical, not tactical (and not Tactical), as the latter is no big shakes. However, you chat any remains of sense out of me when we are on the same team. Whenever I play with you, I see the chat window. That's it. No map, no enemy hp, nothing. Objectively, I am not a bad player (especially with Sed), but this effect is amazing. You feel the urge to explain the most basic things at length. I know you mean well, and I know ~80% of DG players suffer from under-communication problems, but seriously... It kind of shuts me down.

Hope I was objective enough. And, of course, that's not to imply poor mesostoned chronically forgot to buy sigils and monks because of your verbosity

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Quoting OMG__IN1,

reply 3

Well to each his own taste. I personally like that

I also think that mesostoned was only trolling you What's better than making Pacov lose by taking some extremely ineffective build. Not always possible to succeed in a loss, but worth a try.

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I hope you choose wisely with your replays. Going to check this one out.

edit:

meh you played solid, but against what. swift and boots da with 51 total games UB without general support. Also with a speedy da and a weird sedna on your team, fights are inevitable...

maybe you just have a different taste in replays , but I'm certain you've played a lot more interesting games that you can post

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Coming from a new player, I really like the way Pacov communicates. Thats what I need as a learning player. And even if it is "to much", as long as he can do that and still play as awesome as he does, I like it!

Then playing with IN1 which I have done a few times, who is so HOT DAMN FAST its increadible. I dont have to ask for help before he TPs to me. IN1 also commented on my improval which my ego thanks and grows on . Playing with IN1 when I do the right thing, like our games this morning with me as a rook, was exellent. IN1 plays, and SHOULD play with people who have a very good control over everything that happens. I do not have this skill....yet (I hope). A team that simply knows what to do and just need to say, "Left portal" and everyone knows instantly what to do. 2 people TP to protect our portal, 1 person Go steal the enemies one, or something is WOW impressive.

I would say I am an asset in IN1 team when I actually play something well, which seams to be the case for Rook for me. (I play UB and Oak pretty much up untill now).

With Pacov, I can play anything and he "teaches" me during the game. This must take concentration from Pacov but what I have seen, he likes doing so as long as the people he plays with is to his liking I think. Also I get the feeling from Pacov that he is so laid back, that as long as he finds the game fun, he doesnt much care if he wins or looses. That is very simular to me.....though I am working my ass off to get my DAMN % up to people stop kicking me from game wiith the comment "noob".

Oh, And Dark...I cant play with her without she constantly giving me remarks on everything! I owe ALOT of my improvement to Dark for that.

But I do think for the best, effective team, IN1s way is the only way.....

Though, I say it again, I dont mind loosing a 1 hour fight that was fun as hell.

Oh and a note, even if I am, or was one of them, players who dont do normal things like carry a sigil, or EASY things for their Demigod (not talking more then very basic now), like healing for Sedna, Helping to kill with UB etc, even when asked and told so several times.....simply should be avoided. I have run into players like this alot. They dont talk or dont care. My guess this type of player is most of a time a child under 18 years old. Simply avoid them if they time over time again dont listen, or work with the team.

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Quoting OMG__IN1,

reply 3

You feel the urge to explain the most basic things at length. I know you mean well, and I know ~80% of DG players suffer from under-communication problems, but seriously... It kind of shuts me down.

true true, he tries it with me too and makes smart remarks like "demigod 101" after swapping a full hp erebus when his (pacov) sigil ran out -.-

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Quoting Maulkin,

reply 6

I am working my ass off to get my DAMN % up to people stop kicking me from game wiith the comment "noob".

hmm as long as i have another really good person on my team I know, i will let you play in the "no noobs" games. The other day i was going to but you left too fast, so keep joining and maybe we can balance something out so you can keep improving your game

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new idea has found me when i watched this replay

Passportal: http://forums.demigodthegame.com/410438

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But I do think for the best, effective team, IN1s way is the only way.....

Ugh... You over-rate me madly. I kind of love to sound all self-important, laconic and authoritative during the matches, which doesn't mean I am the boss Since my main is a support DG, I absolutely must be map-aware and port in a lot, in the exact right moment (very different from the exact right moment to port in with the UB, for example): that's why I believe the second best favor for Sedna, during the vast majority of matchups, is AoT (the first is not BotF, no). Maybe you mean I have a very humble % for my real level: well, that's mainly because I gladly play on weaker teams, which I cannot really carry through (not really my fault, more of a given with Sed/QoT, though the former is better in this respect).

There is a lot of good players that don't mind playing with you: try Dreamcatcher, for example. The guy is very skilled, and a really nice person. LordPoekelfleisch (another disproportionately low %) is another nick that springs to mind immediately.

Out of the T1 folks... Don't allow McShane's arrogant forum persona to scare you off, the guy is as patient and correct as they come. A great player that is not afraid to play differently, too. Likewise, I think you can learn a lot from ppapanek (very non-trivial thinking, great Rook), though he will get a bit angry if you screw up. Zen is very nice and easy-going, but I don't think someone else can pull the crap he's doing off (especially with the UB), so don't take his playstyle as a recommendation (a hyper-aggressive egotistic one, though mighty impressive) -- at least, as long as your math is not as good as his and you don't have a dedicated Sedna tailing you

And yes, you are definitely willing to learn and getting significantly better with Rook. I do think so, it's just not my usual habit to compliment people during the match

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Yeah there is more people who accept me . Thanks! Rook is more my style. Not so fast and build a wall somewhere, hehe. Also protect flags. I used to do that as UB..didnt always work so well.

Done a few games as sedna....WOW. Had an UB with me and it didnt seam to be anything to stop that team, hehe. I dont like to play female chars since I sort of like to identify with the Character I am playing. But Sedna was simply to good so Ill deffo try that more.

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Quoting OMG__IN1,

reply 10

the second best favor for Sedna, during the vast majority of matchups, is AoT (the first is not BotF, no)

lol blood is so much better than AoT for sedna.. AoT is just convenient but therefore u cant hold any flags in a fair matchup - imagine a mirror game when 1 team gets blood and the other gets AoT.. i cant imagine that the team with AoT would have any chance to win.. especially sedna with the monk heals..

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Quoting Maulkin,

reply 6

Oh, And Dark...I cant play with her without she constantly giving me remarks on everything! I owe ALOT of my improvement to Dark for that.

Sorry... I could stop anytime, if only you asked me to...

Also yeah. IN1 is probably the best support, who plays at the moment, so having him in team gives great advantage if you know how to use that properly

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Sorry?...you are teaching me . Sedna 1v1 with you was interesting! Hehe.

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lol blood is so much better than AoT for sedna

That's for another thread, but my views on a subject, in a nutshell: Cloak > AoT > BotF. Why?

BotF Sedna is great early game, when she can push off/hold flags. That, and a security mechanism protecting from good Regs. However, mid game+ BotF Sed is pathetic. Not just weak. Pathetic. All you have is your half-assed tank hp pool, and no failure tolerance to speak of. That is, unless you seriously plan to invest in J-Treads -- which will mean you failed in your support role and bought an egotistic item instead of giants. Don't even get me started on Silence 2 -> TP, please. It only works in completely non-laggy games, so it's impractical.

AoT, aside from being superbly convenient for a support, gives you one more item slot, which can and should be used for WoS. At 1750, it's a cheap longtime investment that gives you much more failure tolerance than that nooby BotF does.

Cloak is (1) a crappy helm, that solves Sed's early-game mana problems; (2) a superb security mechanism, which does not require any investment into speed -- of course, it does not give you a 100% kill-proof warranty (you can still be chased by persistent Erbs and Occs; usually you won't, though), but then nothing does.

Practically: with Cloak I die once per good match, at worst. With AoT/WoS -- a bit more, as it's more lag-dependent (all clickable items are). With BotF -- the mid-late game turns into 'gank the turtle-like Sedna!' and I always require babysitting, which means I've ultimately failed as a support, since I am the one that must help people out, not the other way round. Again, BotF Sedna is a liability and a feeding source mid-late game.

All that said, I always go BotF when I play with people I do not trust or when a good Reg is at loose Hate it, though.

IN1 is probably the best support, who plays at the moment

I'd say it's a tie between me and NastyBlade. Hmm... I'm not talking T1+ universal guys, as they rarely play anything but killers (killer QoT counts ).

For integrity's sake, 5nana plays a good Sed, but very non-supportive (no Heal until level 9 or so!). Silvius is good as far as personal skill is concerned, too, but I have a big problem with his skill progression and gearing (not getting HW2 ASAP; getting Plenor before any other helm).

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imagine a mirror game when 1 team gets blood and the other gets AoT.. i cant imagine that the team with AoT would have any chance to win.. especially sedna with the monk heals..

If we are comparing BotF Sed vs AoT Sed alone, in a vacuum (or in a 1v1), contesting a flag early game, then yes, no doubt, BotF >>> AoE. However, how about we get a bit more practical and say it's a mirror UB/Rook/Sed 3v3, okay? Now, say the game is skilled, and you push us off hp flag more often than we do (though we get the hp flag first, so even that is disputable). Fair enough. However, the moment my UB is in danger or goes after the enemy UB with low hp, I will tp there, and we will score a kill, while more often than not, BotF Sed won't have the luxury to do so (or will have a luxury to do so once early game; the rest will be at expense of having Vlemish in time, Cur1 in time, etc.). Mid to late game the dynamics change so radically in AoT's favor, any comparison would be unfair.

Note: 2v2 dynamics are different, sure enough, but the only favor I've been successful with in 2v2 was Swift, not BotF.

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awuffleablehedgie

Join Date 04/2009

+60

BotF is required in 2v2.

How are you using Swift Anklet in 2s? Are you on mana side? (If yes then I can understand that because whats-his-name used to do that. That guy was crazy good with 2s Sedna).

3v3 has more room for Cloak but are you honestly purchasing Currency with Cloak? I just don't see how you can.

The fact that you guys are making "kill the Sedna" sound to be like a remarkable, innovative idea is rather sad. You always kill the healer. In ever game ever.

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This thread is lol. First, Pacov no offence but how can you put a game like that on display? Feels like a noob bash to me, dont get me wrong i like to play "easy games" time to time but i wudnt be bragging about them lol.

Second, In you need to play more skilled games where there are no noobs on either team. Ud see how bad your build is and how useless it is. First of a good sedna cant play only a supportive role. And to be able to help in gank situations you need hp. Sure u can heal your teamate by standing nearby but if u dont help and dont attack he is dead anyway.

And why wud you pick amulet if you go for a speed built? I mean wudnt it be enough if u actually bought some scroll in shop? I dont see why you wud have to sacrifice Hp over that. If its not a noob game then your teammates wud know if u can help them with tp or not. And by buying Wos you further sacrifice your mana or hp and thats just stupid. Anyway as i said against noobs pretty much anything wud work but when u play with skilled players you cant just go for a build like that cose they d punish you hard. Thats my opinion

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting OMG__IN1,

reply 3

You'll notice some quick nonsense at the beginning where I tell my teammate I'm getting clerics only to find out he didn't grab monks

Warning: a manifesto of Pacov hater follows.

You know, I hate to say it, but you communicate way too much. Really. I feel a need to elaborate here a bit. You are a great player. Personally, I think your strategical skills are up there with our Korean friends ppaparin -- and I'm talking strategical, not tactical (and not Tactical), as the latter is no big shakes. However, you chat any remains of sense out of me when we are on the same team. Whenever I play with you, I see the chat window. That's it. No map, no enemy hp, nothing. Objectively, I am not a bad player (especially with Sed), but this effect is amazing. You feel the urge to explain the most basic things at length. I know you mean well, and I know ~80% of DG players suffer from under-communication problems, but seriously... It kind of shuts me down.

Hope I was objective enough. And, of course, that's not to imply poor mesostoned chronically forgot to buy sigils and monks because of your verbosity

You really should consider muting me if you find the quantity of words distracting. I really wouldn't take any offense and if that helps you at all in games as my teammate, feel free. Zen's comment refer to having his balls busted by me. Your comment is more along the lines of telling you shite that you already know. And as its apparently throwing you off your A game if I talk too much... and you are the only person that can qualify "too much," it might be best just to do the mute thing. I'll try to limit my communications in games with you as a teammate, though. But if that's not adequate to your tastes, just mute me.

true true, he tries it with me too and makes smart remarks like "demigod 101" after swapping a full hp erebus when his (pacov) sigil ran out -.-

I've always been known for not busting anyone's balls if they do something silly... right. Anyway, I rarely ream anyone out nowadays, even my crazy sedna teammate. The entirety of our communication in game was something to the effect of "I'll cleric, you monk." And bought cur1 or something... and my teammate saying "I should probably stop getting killed now." It's not hard to spot folks that are casual players and folks that want to improve their game, so I really wouldn't have bothered to provide tips in this case... I just made note of my teammates equipment and decided to support him as best I could.

And with fun results. I really enjoyed the game. I found it fun. No - it certainly wasn't the world's greatest matchup, but I found the amount of back and forth entertaining.

maybe you just have a different taste in replays , but I'm certain you've played a lot more interesting games that you can post

Sadly, nothing all that recent. Can't remember the last time I had a really solid top player game. Most games are just balancing based on folks that are available, which is generally what I end up doing lately.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting visca_el_barca,

reply 18

Pacov no offence but how can you put a game like that on display? Feels like a noob bash to me

None taken. I didn't feel like it was noob bashing (unless you feel like no healer + no sigil sed was a tier 1 player). Was simply an enjoyable game that was a bit nuts, imo. Haven't had a very action packed game in some time.

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pacov

Join Date 02/2008

+183

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 17

BotF is required in 2v2.

How are you using Swift Anklet in 2s? Are you on mana side? (If yes then I can understand that because whats-his-name used to do that. That guy was crazy good with 2s Sedna).

hedgie - one of the best 2 man teams was erska conti and sakke... and the sed was always always ank. You are probably right about being on the mana side though.

The fact that you guys are making "kill the Sedna" sound to be like a remarkable, innovative idea is rather sad. You always kill the healer. In ever game ever.

naw... I get what you are saying and I understand. But its the degree that they were pushing sed that I'm referring to... kind of like that "it's a new player, go farm em" sort of mentality. Didn't matter that it was sed. All that matter was that they changed their strat to go nuts to get my teammate anytime they could... even if they were quite some distance away. meso's not new btw, but certainly a casual player

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Second, In you need to play more skilled games where there are no noobs on either team.

The very same games you are afraid of? Well, I play them whenever there is one up. For some mysterious reason, I never see you there. Ask nnnils, Zen, ppapa, Shane.

So, my dear killingspring or whatever you prefer to call yourself now, go back to cheating 1v1 vs noobs. That's what you are good at, after all, no? Don't spoil intelligent discussions by your inane babblings, pretty please.

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You really should consider muting me if you find the quantity of words distracting.

Well, Pacov, there is life, and there is DG. I refuse to mute a mature reasonable person I've learnt to like (it was not an easy process ) just because it may undermine the results of game X or Y.

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How are you using Swift Anklet in 2s? Are you on mana side? (If yes then I can understand that because whats-his-name used to do that. That guy was crazy good with 2s Sedna).

Well, I'm not crazy good in 2v2 yet, nor will I ever be, I'm afraid, but yes -- mana side it is.

3v3 has more room for Cloak but are you honestly purchasing Currency with Cloak? I just don't see how you can.

Hmm, why not? I stay in lane till WR 3 (circa lvl 6-7), then I go and purchase either Banded+Scalemail or Banded+Scaled, depending on my mana usage. You mean I get focused? Yes, I do. But I know when to go back and when to jump back, so I rarely get ganked successfully. Also, I don't lane with squishy TBs (no offense, Thunder), as a rule For me, it's Rook, Rook, and more Rook.

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Quoting nnnils,

reply 12

agree. ppapanek and shane try it from time to time, but i wouldn't say it works great. maybe on bigger maps, or if 4v4s and 5v5s would actually work.

Quoting awuffleablehedgie,

reply 17

How are you using Swift Anklet in 2s? Are you on mana side? (If yes then I can understand that because whats-his-name used to do that. That guy was crazy good with 2s Sedna).

ppapanek makes it work, he does it with oak too. It's very difficult to pull off though.

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