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JuareZz
JuareZz
Join Date 05/2009
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Blood of the Fallen

August 15, 2009 3:30:22 PM from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Before killing me for another Balancing post, read this.

 

BotF is not overpowered favor item. For example for rook its very needed because of the tank playstyle. But I think Its another thing if LE, Sedna or UB get it. Lord Erebus hasd 80 health more, making him much harder to kill. I saw a few minion EBs, which had 6,5k life on lvl 10. Its not funny. I think Sedna has low health but high regen. This is designed so that shes vulnerable vs burst, but not vs DPS. UB has the highest standard Armor. Its made to make him protected vs DPS. But Blood of the Fallen destroys this Design I think. All in all HP Items are too strong, like everyone knows, or lets say DPs items and so on cant stand this. I mean when i play reg, and theres another reg in the enemy team, he has BotF and I have Poisened Dagger or any Damage Item else, hell fist me in any case. Now i swear you say "Poisened Dagger is better lategame". Maybe, thats right. but BotF for example complately absorbs one rain of ice IV. I dont play TB anymore.

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JuareZz
Twinsen
Join Date 07/2009
+4
Reply #1 August 15, 2009 3:48:51 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

It seems like it's not BotF you dislike but hp and hp-regen items?

 

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JuareZz
JuareZz
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #2 August 15, 2009 4:01:52 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Twinsen,
reply 1
It seems like it's not BotF you dislike but hp and hp-regen items?

 

 

The Combination. I mean BotF amplifies the hp stacking. You ahve no chance as a 2,2k life Erebus vs one with 4,5k.

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JuareZz
mrbubbbles
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #3 August 15, 2009 4:04:48 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

BotS is better imo...

 

now that ive read it im going to kill you

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JuareZz
Twinsen
Join Date 07/2009
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Reply #4 August 15, 2009 4:16:19 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting JuareZz,
reply 2

Quoting Twinsen, reply 1It seems like it's not BotF you dislike but hp and hp-regen items?

 
 

The Combination. I mean BotF amplifies the hp stacking. You ahve no chance as a 2,2k life Erebus vs one with 4,5k.

hmm, BotF would not grant you 2.3k HP

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JuareZz
ddd888
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #5 August 15, 2009 4:34:09 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

few times im my life i saw a thread so meaningless

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JuareZz
mrbubbbles
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #6 August 15, 2009 4:35:07 PM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

Quoting JuareZz,
reply 2



Quoting Twinsen,
reply 1
It seems like it's not BotF you dislike but hp and hp-regen items?

 


 

The Combination. I mean BotF amplifies the hp stacking. You ahve no chance as a 2,2k life Erebus vs one with 4,5k.

 

if you use BotS you will never have to buy a mana item. ever. that way you have an extra 1500+ gold that you can buy health items with. In addition, BotS is just as good late game.

 

for generals this is defferent, but my point is that BotF is not the best item in every situation...

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JuareZz
pseudomelon
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #7 August 16, 2009 3:12:50 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

As you play more matches, you'll probably come to the same conclusion that most of us have: While BotF is a great staple favor item, there are those that easily outdo it. BotS and Cloak of the Night are great examples.

but BotF for example complately absorbs one rain of ice IV. I dont play TB anymore.

You're using TB wrong; he's much better at lane control than Demigod killing.

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JuareZz
ZehDon
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #8 August 16, 2009 3:16:26 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

As melon said, BotF isn't the "Ultimate Favour Item" and it is far from over-powered. It is one that requires absolutely no skill in using, however, which is why so many people kick it.

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JuareZz
JuareZz
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #9 August 16, 2009 1:59:13 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting pseudomelon,
reply 7
As you play more matches, you'll probably come to the same conclusion that most of us have: While BotF is a great staple favor item, there are those that easily outdo it. BotS and Cloak of the Night are great examples.


but BotF for example complately absorbs one rain of ice IV. I dont play TB anymore.
You're using TB wrong; he's much better at lane control than Demigod killing.

 

But when EB domiantes me, i cant dominate the lane.

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JuareZz
Lughsan
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #10 August 16, 2009 2:34:37 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting JuareZz,
reply 9

Quoting pseudomelon, reply 7As you play more matches, you'll probably come to the same conclusion that most of us have: While BotF is a great staple favor item, there are those that easily outdo it. BotS and Cloak of the Night are great examples.


but BotF for example complately absorbs one rain of ice IV. I dont play TB anymore.
You're using TB wrong; he's much better at lane control than Demigod killing.
 

But when EB domiantes me, i cant dominate the lane.

Go to another lane.. protect your towers and use them to help whittle down the creeps..

 

You have a lot of learn to play issues my friend..

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JuareZz
pseudomelon
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #11 August 16, 2009 4:21:33 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

If EB plays minions, you can take Frost Nova, Circle of Fire, and level 1 tower upgrades. When he pushes the towers, freeze his minions and drop your circle. Fireball spammage will keep his hero at bay most of the time.

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JuareZz
5Nana
Join Date 08/2009
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Reply #12 August 16, 2009 10:46:44 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Botf is OVERPOWERED...  look at CHARM OF LIFE.. who would use charm of life... for 10% death penalty reduction other than 400 more health...

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JuareZz
Pod808
Join Date 01/2009
+6
Reply #13 August 16, 2009 11:27:42 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

i guess if you were going suicide oak maybe. Just planned on smashing forts or cit untill you die. And no, BotF is not overpowered.

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JuareZz
Maff86
Join Date 08/2009
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Reply #14 August 17, 2009 3:23:01 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

BotF is awesome but not needed in all of situations. The faster dg will take less damage but can control all of the flags or run away, or catch a bully when he has less hp/mana, help faster to his tank-mate.. the game is not about 1 vs 1 messing. And nobody disallow u to stack your hp too! maybe 4500 hp demigod is weaker than 5300 hp demigod but much more maneurable. The fast can compensate his hp by bying more hp items but slower one will be slower all over the game.

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JuareZz
the_hunger
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #15 August 17, 2009 10:57:05 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

BotF is a very good choice for a favor item, but as a few have said already it is not always the best choice.  It's good for a solid early-game advantage if you are going to try to kill demigods.  It also stacks well with other health items throughout the game. However, I use the swift anklet just as often, especially when playing Queen of Thorns (I could see how it would be helpful for Rook as well). 

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JuareZz
[ShakeNBake]
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #16 August 17, 2009 12:50:39 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

However, I use the swift anklet just as often, especially when playing Queen of Thorns (I could see how it would be helpful for Rook as well).


swift anklet on rook and you are still at 6.2 move speed, sedna + erebus + UB will all outrun you, TB has aura, oak has pen, reg has maim / mines / MoB etc etc

no point in getting anklet on rook because you sacrafice a lot of hp (slam) or cooldown % (tower) for something which STILL won't make you fast enough to get away.


p.s. BotF > all

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JuareZz
JuareZz
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Reply #17 August 17, 2009 1:29:49 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting Maff86,
reply 14
BotF is awesome but not needed in all of situations. The faster dg will take less damage but can control all of the flags or run away, or catch a bully when he has less hp/mana, help faster to his tank-mate.. the game is not about 1 vs 1 messing. And nobody disallow u to stack your hp too! maybe 4500 hp demigod is weaker than 5300 hp demigod but much more maneurable. The fast can compensate his hp by bying more hp items but slower one will be slower all over the game.

 

Compeltely ignored Mana & DPS items

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JuareZz
JuareZz
Join Date 05/2009
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Reply #18 August 17, 2009 1:31:01 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Anyway, lets say the half of the Favor items are completely underpowered.

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JuareZz
Sly_Squash
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #19 August 17, 2009 1:41:05 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

I like the cloak.  The extra mana-free warp combines well with my erebus's bite to really discourage kiting, and it gives passive mana benefits too.  Why worry about movement speed from the anklet when a quick warp will put enough distance between you and the opponent to get you away most of the times?  It's also nice because then I can bat swarm + bite kill to really get guys behind towers and still have another tp to get me out before I die.

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JuareZz
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #20 August 17, 2009 2:13:16 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

BoF is the outright best. For once Juarrez dint make a senseless post. If our entire team takes BoF and your entire team takes bots/cloaks/whatever, YOU WILL LOSE. Extra health lets you dominate the map; if you dominate the map early game you won, without giving other things away(like kills). Its simple really.

 

 

P.S. ShakenBake hit the nail on the head, although I would argue that speed is not only for escaping or pursueing, postiioning/anticipated escapes benefit greatly from speed increases.

 

P.P.S. Cloack of night is imho the worst item for erebus, just like anklet is. Youa lready have a teleport AND a slow(bite) why in gods name do you need even more speed.  You won benefit from speed if you cant fight(ie without bof).

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JuareZz
Sly_Squash
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #21 August 17, 2009 2:47:07 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lifekatana,
reply 20
P.P.S. Cloack of night is imho the worst item for erebus, just like anklet is. Youa lready have a teleport AND a slow(bite) why in gods name do you need even more speed.  You won benefit from speed if you cant fight(ie without bof).

- because bat swarm is hella mana and it's not always clear you'll have enough left over for the bite; with cloak, it's free
- because bat swarm starts at level 5 and regulus will start kiting you at level 1
- because more mana means more bites means more hp, and the increased mana regen will stack with future + regen % items
- because bat swarm cd's plus mana cost don't make it entirely reliable as an escape valve
- because I don't like to die from towers when I bat swarm + bite to finish someone off who's retreating behind towers

 

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JuareZz
lifekatana
Join Date 05/2008
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Reply #22 August 17, 2009 3:10:51 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

- get more mana,

- more heatlh means more priest healing means less damage from kiting

- 4+ mana is not so much. Health will stack with priets.

- More hp means you survive longer so more time to bat away. But really if you are in trouble as erebus you probably overextended yourself.

- More hp means you can just walk out.>.>

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JuareZz
Wogrim
Join Date 08/2009
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Reply #23 August 17, 2009 3:27:00 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

BotF is better than most of the favor items in many cases, but by choosing it you're missing out on stats/abilities that you can't get anywhere else, or in some cases you can get somewhere else but not till late game because the item with it is so expensive.  BotF doesn't need to be nerfed, but many of the other favor items could use a small buff (either buff their abilities, or add a bit of stats to them).

The problem this thread is really about is health items in general, and most of these responses are completely ignoring that.  Characters that need to be more fragile by design (example, massive dps and easy slow/stun of UB, untouchable maneuverability and easy slow/lifesteal of LE) become overpowered when they can easily add 2-3k to their base health and just walk over mine fields like it's nobody's business.  Health items need a nerf, so that they give around 1/2 to 3/4 of the health they currently give.

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JuareZz
Sly_Squash
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #24 August 17, 2009 3:27:45 PM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Quoting lifekatana,
reply 22
- get more mana,

- more heatlh means more priest healing means less damage from kiting

- 4+ mana is not so much. Health will stack with priets.

- More hp means you survive longer so more time to bat away. But really if you are in trouble as erebus you probably overextended yourself.

- More hp means you can just walk out.>.>

Blood of the fallen:
- Get more health

See, I can do it too.  More health is a lot easier to get than a warpstone with passive mana benefits starting from level 1 though.  Oh, and +4MP/sec isn't much?  That's about twice your base regen starting out, and again it stacks with + % mana items...

And, as mentioned (twice) more mana -> more bites -> more health anyway...

 

We can agree to disagree about whether BotF or Cloak is better with erebus, but to say Cloak is the worst item is a dramatic overstatement and just plain wrong.

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JuareZz
pseudomelon
Join Date 04/2009
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Reply #25 August 18, 2009 1:55:02 AM
from Demigod ForumsDemigod Forums

Cloak of the Night is easily one of his most effective items, now that the Horn has been removed, imo. BotF's 800 HP feels silly in comparison.

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