That's how most companies work I think? Valve used the money made from Half Life 1 to make Half Life 2. I'd glad they did.

The netcode is functional at time of writing. I haven't had connection problems for some time now. I have to say I agree with the assertion made by SD that the problems are a small minority and isolated to those with strange setups.

You're saying in your third "*)" that the game has blown its opportunity, and yet you want the company to continue to push it as if everything is peachy? If we take your assumption that Demigod is doomed as fact then there is little point in continuing to support it as rigorously as they are now, adding content and such. If we take your assumption as false then surely by continuing development and possibly through promotional weekends or similar there would be a good chance to sustain a good community.

I'll admit the fanboys are somewhat irritating, things are not as fantastic as they would claim, but I think the picture you're painting is a little too far in the opposite direction. That Frogboy has said player number are stable is encouraging.

The net code is not functional.  Connecting is one thing.  Playing anything bigger than a 3vs3 (and often 3vs3 at that) without significant lag (and without a means of testing beforehand whether there would be significant lag if we started the game) is another.  There's still a ways to go.

I feel it's functional. It's definately still the achilles heel of the game though, once in game things are very good. Supcom was never particularly playable with large player numbers for similar reasons iirc, I guess I'm just happy with 3v3 and the odd 4v4?

At the end of the day, people don't care - nor should they - about why they have a given problem with something. 

My objection comes when people can't treat other human beings with an ounce of decency. 

Now, right now, I have to decide where to assign my resources.  Normally, the publisher does not get involved in the development of a game.  We didn't write any code for Sins of a Solar Empire.  But with Demigod, we're in this position where we're trying our best to add features to a game that we didn't write in order to satisfy people but also with the hopes that it will allow the community to grow which in turn will increase sales. This isn't a hobby after all, it's a product.

Demigod, on release, is the game that the developer, Gas Powered Games, presumably felt was ready.  We, the publisher, believed it ready for release.

Now, people want all these other features.  Well, I can ask some features to be added by GPG.  But there is a finite budget to do that. Anything beyond that budget has to be handled by us directly.

But there are economic realitities involved with that.  People make this false assumption that companies want customers at any cost. That's not the case.  Stardock is best known for developing "niche" strategy games like Galactic Civilizations and publishing "niche" RTS's like Sins of a Solar Empire.  This is not a coincidence. Our goal isn't to have the largest possible customer base. Our goal is to have the kind of customer base that is compatible with our principles while doing so profitably.

I just shake my head when I see someone say that we "have" to do X, Y, Z or they won't buy future products from us.  No, we don't "have" to. Because the size of the customer base that agrees with our principles which I think are very ethical and transparent is more than enough to sustain our continued success.

One of our principles is to not care whose "fault" it is that something doesn't work right but rather for us to roll up our sleaves and fix it. 

 

Impulse reactor is responsible for handing out sockets to the game client, as was posted by Frogboy.  Socket handing is the thing that failed as the database response grew to more than a minute.  I don't think there is such a thing as a player connection database in the game, is there?  Get over your fanboyism and learn to read.


When I bought the game from Stardock I entered a implied seller/buyer contract with them.  That contract implies responsibility on their part.  When you go and buy a home appliance only to return home and find it lacks advertised functionality and on top is not working at all, do you go to the factory or the shop that splld it you.


Again it was the server side that failed and the chosen provider of the libraries.  I'm not saying GPG is clear of blame, I know how badly they can program, but both my above points are valid.  Additionaly, as a publisher, it was Stardocks responsibility to assure proper testing (aka QA) procedures and not release a game until fully functional.  Moreover, it's Stardocks responsibility to assure in their contracts proper obligations for the developer and providers of libraries, which will ensure their prompt and full support in cases like this.  Finally, GPG may not be allowed to post here by policies as they handed over the support to Stardock.  See - there are many ways to spin this...


Anyone, my 40 bucks are good everywhere.

No, not all people can contact support.  I'm an international digital download customer.  The forum is my only source of support.

Yes I'm vocal.  But I have not flamed or attacked anyone.  I try to stick to the available information and clearly mark where the post is my opinion and not a fact.  You having a problem with me discussing openly the problems is sad.

 

Pantheon and Skirmish are running on an entirely different internet then the one I normally use.

 

 

That is an inaccurate description.

Impulse Reactor acts as the interface to the NAT server.  Arguing that Impulse Reactor is problematic would be like blaming your web browser is problematic when you get a 404.

And you had the option to return the game if it did not function for you. The seller of the product is not obligated to put its store clerks to work making the product better for you.

I don't think users should care whose fault it is. But if you are going to choose to assign blame as you are, you could make that same argument about Atari or Snowball too.  As far as we all knew, the game worked fine prior to release.

There is nothing stopping GPG from posting here other than they are very busy working on the game.

If you are truly so dissatisfied, why not return the game and move on? 

 

Most likely because he is a fan of the mechanics and of the actual gameplay itself, while being frustrated by nearly everything else about the game, like many players.

Im sorry to say this, but that is so true.

Stardock, since it seems that you are reading this thread.

To give a quick background, I worked for Sony as QA I, QA II for Playstation II, PSP release games and PS III release games for about three years.  I may not be a gaming expert but I understand how the industry works from the QA / development perspective.

I believe you should continue the development of your product.  One of the reasons why a lot of people come on the forum to complain is because they actually like the game.  If they did not, they would just unistall it and go their merry way.  

This game has amazing potential, the RTS and RPG elements are an awesome combination.  This game was reccomended to me by a friend.  I in turn reccomended it to two more friends.  But guess what I told my friends?  I said "this game is awesome, its where Diablo meets Warcraft but if you go online be patient with it".  

I understand that network coding is an ugly beast mainly because its a lot harder to test and even harder to verify if problems get fixed or not, packets can be dropped from servers, routers, cable modems, bad wireless connections etc.  Having said that I hosted a game two days ago for a 2v2 and I was the one that got dropped.  I have also been in a 2v1 Pantheon game twice.  Could it be that I had a lag spike?  Maybe in the 2v1 game one of the players left before the load?  For sure.

However if everyone is experiencing it, either the internet is unreliable for every single player that plays this game or there is an issue with the game's networking code.  I am sure your team stress tested the servers, perhaps more tests must be done when it comes to game creation and team matching.

Will adding more demigods, clans, replays be good?  Of course, it will keep your current players still interested and perhaps old players to rejoin.  Will it be an uphill battle?  Probably.

In the current state of the gaming industry there is a huge push to develop games and push them out the door and bugs can always be fixed later.  This is not just the PC gaming industry, but the gaming industry as a whole, I have experienced this both as a QA and a player.  I also understand the complexities of deadlines, available funds, hard deadlines for final version for factory production etc.

Having said that I rather wait for a game two extra months and have it play flawlessly, than buy it on time and have to deal with issues.  I understand that no matter what a game will have flaws, with the increasing complexity of games, the large playerbase things are bound to break.

Perhaps I am being unfair since I am seeing this from the eyes of an ex-QA and not from the product development side.  In the end what has happened has happened.  Now you can focus on the present and the future.  Realize that the forums are not an accurate snapshot of the community as a whole.  If you want to see examples of that just head to the World of Warcraft forums...according to the forums the game is the most horrible game in the planet, yet they have 11 million people playing it.

Obviously I am unaware of the internal politics of the company, how much budget you have available etc, but for what its worth as an experienced gamer and a person that used to work in the industry I definitely see potential in this game.  Never underestimate how powerful word of mouth actually is in the gaming circles.

No. Email stardock if you can't play.

 

I purchased an actual box copy of the game, the retail outlet I purchased the game from will not take it back.

It would be equivalent to buying a movie dvd, going home watching the movie then trying to return it because "it sucks".