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JJBuck2
JJBuck2
Join Date 01/2009
+8

vasari

February 10, 2009 8:37:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Is it just me or do the vasari have a bit of a ridiculous advantage where thier starbase is concerned? It can move, has insane damage reduction and repair abilities, can be built earlier, and has far more hull points and shield points than any of the others.  Yes I suppose its weapon capabilities are a little lower than the other starbases but not enough to make a difference.  Also, the lack of long range structure killing ships in the Vasari fleet doesnt matter, all the other starbases can just be passed up unless they are planted right on top of the planet.  I really hope the final version of Entrenchment changes something, whether its extending the range of the other starbases or trimming the health and shields of the Vasari SB or something.  Its extreme health, early production ability, and mobility more than make up for the lack of a torpedo cruiser (or similar) and make it easily outclass all the other starbases.

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JJBuck2
Blair Fraser
Join Date 10/2006
+292
Reply #1 February 10, 2009 9:35:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

(Assuming you are playing beta version 2.5)

We don't balance by unit, we balance by faction. We actually feel (as do many others here) that the Vasari may actually need a boost and we may need to add this to the starbase (in particular, its anti-structure capabilities).

Its our opinion given the beta 2.5 balance, that the Advent starbase is the weakest and the TEC's is the strongest, however that doesn't mean we feel these two factions are out of balance. One thing I can confirm is that the strategies employed in using each of the starbases are completely different.

 

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JJBuck2
Uranium - 235
Join Date 09/2006
+5
Reply #2 February 11, 2009 3:32:34 AM
from Stardock ForumsStardock Forums

I can't even fathom how one would find anti-structure abilities on a starbase to be useful. They take so damn long to build I couldn't even picture building one and upgrading it in a hostile gravity well...

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JJBuck2
Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
+31
Reply #3 February 11, 2009 11:06:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Is it just me or do the vasari have a bit of a ridiculous advantage where thier starbase is concerned? It can move, has insane damage reduction and repair abilities, can be built earlier, and has far more hull points and shield points than any of the others.

I am an experienced player, but I have not yet been able to successfully assault an enemy SB with a vasari SB.  With equivalent hull points as the enemy SB, plus the anti-structure weapon upgrade, my SBs have dropped like flies.  Note that I am not screaming that this means there is something wrong by any means.  Perhaps the "something wrong" is me.

I haven't noticed the "far more hull and shield points" that you claim, nor any of your other bones of contention.  Have you tried to use the vasari SB in assault against an unfair AI or decent human opponent, or are you merely going by stats and abilities of the SBs?  One thing you are certainly dead wrong about is that the vasari SB "more than makes up for" the lack of a torp frigate.  Torp frigs obviously own SBs, so this can't be true.

Regards.

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JJBuck2
JJBuck2
Join Date 01/2009
+8
Reply #4 February 12, 2009 5:49:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

not trying to start an arguement it was just an observation.  on that note, what i was going by is the SB's overall fully upgraded stats.  while yes it may not be oh so useful against structures, it is also prohibitively hard to use one in that capacity.  that aside, a fully upgraded vasari starbase has four health and shield upgrades as well as the frontal shield upgrade.  all told i have had a vasari SB with 20,000+ health, something none of the other SB's can match.  the fact that it can move also somewhat negates the advantage of the torp frigate, since the SB can move into range and pummel them unless you have an entire fleet of them.  the vasari SB can be built with only two military structures as opposed to three in the other factions. youre right, the vasari SB doesnt have "insane repair capabilities" as i said, i misspoke (or typed i suppose ).  my point is not that the vasari SB needs to be weakened, nor is it that they deserve a torpedo frigate or that other factions do not.  im simply saying that maybe the other factions could get a boost to their starbases, maybe longer range or maybe a cost decrease or something.  just a thought (albeit a rather long one .

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JJBuck2
Samurye
Join Date 08/2008
+10
Reply #5 February 12, 2009 6:13:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I believe that the Vasari starbase was always intended to be extremely powerful, was it not? Anyway, the Vasari starbase is very Vasari. The Vasari love having extremely powerful stuff, and I think that their starbase suits them just fine.

 

Samurye.

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JJBuck2
MageMatthew
Join Date 04/2003
+4
Reply #6 February 12, 2009 6:23:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Uranium - 235,
reply 2
I can't even fathom how one would find anti-structure abilities on a starbase to be useful. They take so damn long to build I couldn't even picture building one and upgrading it in a hostile gravity well...

I find dope on a rope good for distracting enemy forces. Jump in a few scouts and just jump them to the farthest point away from the jump point and once there move them around from top to bottom or side to side but keeping forces away from base and if need be jump in more scouts to keep them busy. Make sure not to let the base drift off to engage till it is built.

This works on AI but would never work on a human player.

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JJBuck2
Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
+31
Reply #7 February 12, 2009 7:07:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JJBuck2,
reply 4
the fact that it can move also somewhat negates the advantage of the torp frigate, since the SB can move into range and pummel them unless you have an entire fleet of them.

The fact that it can move does not negate the advantage of the topr frigate, because at this point in time torp frigates own SBs.  A very small fleet of them will level an SB in seconds.  Also, the vasari SB is very slow - you can easily get away from it if necessary.

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JJBuck2
JJBuck2
Join Date 01/2009
+8
Reply #8 February 12, 2009 7:43:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

lol it "somewhat negates". like i said im not bashing any faction in any way, i personally love the vasari.  all im saying is that in my humble opinion the other factions should get some sort of SB bonus whether its increased range or whatever.  im not looking at it from a TEC vs Vasari standpoint or an Advent vs Vasari standpoint, just from the view that overall the Vasari SB has some major advantages over the other factions SB's that in my opinion arent made up for by the fact that they get torp frigates (which are definitely decidedly awesome, Agent of Kharma i completely agree with you on that point). 

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JJBuck2
Kauljrin
Join Date 11/2008
0
Reply #9 February 13, 2009 11:33:38 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

i understand the health advantage that the vasari base has, but it seems to me that their SB gets some bonuses that don't fit their profile. eg. - their colony pods fit the background for the race but it doesn't require growth and it allows their bases to bring in as much money as the TEC's SB even sooner than the TEC can.. (2 military centers vs. 3 military and 2 civil). And they can eventually bring in more money with their 1 tier trade upgrade. all these advantages are a sort of "if that's what you want to do" kind of thing, but as a TEC player i think there is a little imbalance given that the vasari get the same amount of money with the addition of a strong defense.

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JJBuck2
Orodum
Join Date 10/2008
+29
Reply #10 February 13, 2009 3:33:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Matthew the Mage,
reply 6


I find dope on a rope good for distracting enemy forces. Jump in a few scouts and just jump them to the farthest point away from the jump point and once there move them around from top to bottom or side to side but keeping forces away from base and if need be jump in more scouts to keep them busy. Make sure not to let the base drift off to engage till it is built.

This works on AI but would never work on a human player.

It will if you can keep the Attack alarm from sounding.  not sure if the alarm sounds for heavy constructors, but it doesn't for scouts.

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