New Player -- Unimpressed by the AI

So, I've recently picked up the GC2: The Ultimate Edition. I had never played any of the GalCiv games before, but decided to give it a try based on the many positive reviews. One thing that the reviews cited in particular was a superior, challenging AI that GC2 supposedly has. This was a big selling point for me, since most 4x games are ruined by brain-dead computer opponents that don't take proper advantage of a game's many nuances and fail to provide a good challenge for a human player.

Well, after playing a few games on the Tough AI setting (which supposedly maximizes the computer's strategic ability), I have to say I'm unimpressed and rather puzzled by the praise the AI received from the reviewers.

The AI is bad at developing its planets. It will often fail to take advantage of the bonus tiles other than the Research or Production ones. It will not rush-build factories to speed up a planet's initial development. In general, it will have undeveloped planets sitting idly for many, many months slowly building advanced projects which the planet's industry is incapable of completing within reasonable time. It will not cultivate large, taxable populations and is nearly oblivious to the population Approval.

The AI is terrible at diplomacy. It will trade its technology, warships, and even planets away for very small amounts of money or low-level, mostly useless tech and without regard to the loss of its strategic advantage resulting from such trades. It is far too willing to be bribed into making war (or making peace) with the most dire consequnces for itself.

The AI fails at geopolitics. It does not mind its borders and those that violate them. You can mass warships close to a computer player's key assets for a future crippling assault, and AI will only respond with a mild diplomatic penalty towards you. As long as you manage to maintain good diplomatic realtions with AI players in the first place, they will allow you to get away with extremely dangerous behavior.

Speaking of which, the AI sucks at the Influnece game. I am able to stage hostile takeovers of entire civilizations with Influence Starbases built inside thier territory and, again, suffer no reprisal aside from a minor diplomatic rebuke. Nor will the AI attempt to counteract my influence with its own starbases or planetary structures, and I have rarely seen the AI build influence starbases of its own at all.

The AI is oblivious to another civilization (human or AI) actively pursuing and approaching one of the victory conditions. I've been able to pursue a Technology victory undeterred. I've achieved Diplomatic victory without other civilizations making war on me, trying to ally with me and my allies, or attempting to break my alliances via pitting my allies against each other. I've witnessed an AI civilization go for an early Ascension victory and come within 100 days of it without other civilizations ganging up on the culprit until I paid them to declare war.

Finally, the AI is poor at war-making. Its entire war strategy seems to be limited to pumping out lots of ships and engaging enemy fleets until total military superiority is achieved, at which point it will send some transports to take over the undefended planets.  The computer's attacks seem to be very broad and undirected in scope: it doesn't purposedly seek to achieve local superiority to capture/destroy key enemy assets quickly, it does not preemptively position fleets in preparation for war, when on the defense it does not stage effective counter-attacks. Overall, when confronted with an opponent of similar technological/industrial level the AI wages a protracted, ineffective, economy-draining war of attrition.

The only thing the AI is truly good at is maximizing its industrial capacity and achieving high military production output. Its planets tend to be factory-heavy and it seems to like to adjust its economy settings towards industral productivity. Thus it can surprise a novice human player with a very large amount of warships. But lots of ships hardly equals good AI. Once the human player figures out how to min-max the game's (atrociously bad!) economic model he can match and surpass AI's ship production and make its advantage go away.

Although it's not an AI issue, I feel that the horrible economic model desreves a special mention. I can find no merit in this unintuitive monstrosity governed by multiple sliders and setting across different interface panels that forces the player to maximize one type of production (usually industrial) across his entire empire to the complete detriment of another or else suffer gross inefficiency across the entire planetary infrastructure. The income model is likewise extremely flawed. By making wealth generation be driven primarily by an exponential growth population function the game assures that the civilization which pursues Economy/Growth/Approval bonuses will run away with game's economy including prodution, while the one that does not will remain chronically poor and underpowered across the board.

Despite all I've said here, I'm enjoying GC2. I love the vast variety technologies, civilizations, and empire building options. The extensive spaceship design workshop is great in particular! I like the crisp graphics too, although I just wish the game would give me more reasons to zoom in on the action rather than play from the zoomed out strategic view.

But as to the claims of great AI... I just don't see how these are justifed. Anyway, just my 2 cents.    

 

6,063 views 5 replies
Reply #1 Top

The AIs build Influence bases in my games.  One thing I have not yet seen an AI do is let their treasury go negative, yet I find a bit of deficit spending to be important in the late opening stages.  I have had less luck getting the Major race AIs trade me good tech on good terms than you seem to have enjoyed, even when I have teh diplomatic advantage.

I don't disagree with much else you posted, though, and I hope others weigh in.  For that matter, you missed a few other aspects that I've seen on this Board, such as AI inferior Colony Rush strategies.  Still, the AI here is as good or better than the other ones I've played against in other 4X games, and the game is more complex.

Reply #2 Top

My own reaction is "Yes and No".

I find the AI in GC II can provide a challenge and keeps you on you toes without cheating. To this extent it is head and shoulder above the AI I've seen in any other game, which can be unchallenging even *with* cheating;

Compared to a human? Well, let's not pretend. I would *love* to have deep strategic game like this where I was both competent with the game, and had fear of the AI, without extra resources in it's favor. Not there yet.

I *do* find I've seen the AI do things you don't seem to have come across, although they have different personalities and some are far better than the others - For reasons I'm not sure of I seem to always end up fighting it out with the d*mn Krynn in a game, or (I've spaced the name - posting from work) Alternate universe insectoids, both of whom seem to play much better against my "Leave me alone, I'm busy developing a horrendous tech advantage and keeping my happy people happy" style than others that seem to logically be a better bigger threat.

I will *also* note - when I went from an older 32 bit processor to a triple-core AMD 64 bit processor . . . they got smarter. If you're on an older system, it does make a difference and if you are on a newer system, make sure you have all the options to maximize the processor access for the AI on. It makes a difference.

Regarding the economy? If there is a single thing I dislike about GalCiv II beyond occasional UI issues, it's that the economic system is workable, but not nearly as realistic and in depths as some of the other items. I agree, I would love to have that pulled out and revamped with a more indepth system that modelled things better - I'd love to have public/private sectors, have the amount of debt you can go into be a function of your tax base and credit score, et al.

Anyway - Jonnan

Reply #3 Top

The AI is oblivious to another civilization (human or AI) actively pursuing and approaching one of the victory conditions. I've been able to pursue a Technology victory undeterred. I've achieved Diplomatic victory without other civilizations making war on me, trying to ally with me and my allies, or attempting to break my alliances via pitting my allies against each other. I've witnessed an AI civilization go for an early Ascension victory and come within 100 days of it without other civilizations ganging up on the culprit until I paid them to declare war.
End of quote

The AI is designed to consider things from the perspective of what is best for their civilization. If licking the boots of the Korath is going to perserve their civilization, the AIs will likely do so. Likewise, I do get messages from the AIs from time to time saying that "so and so is sweeping across the galaxy like a plague" or something like that, and that "in the mean time, we should build up our arms until we can resist". I often find the AIs joining in the fighting if I prove myself able to beat them back.

The AI fails at geopolitics. It does not mind its borders and those that violate them.
End of quote

I remember there was a time the AI will declare war on a player who was passing through with transports. This included ships the AI gave the player to attack another civ you were at war with.

A lot of players didn't like that.

Although it's not an AI issue, I feel that the horrible economic model desreves a special mention.
End of quote

Meh... Its been a problem forever. The devs tried to do something fancy when they were first making this game, but it got too complicated and was not very fun. They might fix this for GalCiv 3 or something.

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From my experience, the AI for this game is better than what I've played in other games. Many of the other games would not play well (like Space Empires 5), or they might gain up on me because I'm the human player (like in my last game of Civization 3).

Reply #4 Top

GalCiv2 is The Sims for boys. Cool starships with graphics etc. And it is great in that, no question. But it is not a very good 4X game. Thats what Civ4:BTS is for. (>>>depth, >>> AI, >>> economic model, >>>intuitive, >>>mods, multiplayer). Even more so, considering how little to do there is for an AI in GC2. No terrain difference, no tile difference, no ship specialization. But, again it excels in good looking combat and being SciFi, sorta. Because tech descriptions are comedy jokes. Must be.

Reply #5 Top

Sims is the Sims for boys.  No one who has played GCII for any length of time would defend the ability of the AI.

Being a new player, you seem to know a lot about the game...like playing "Tough".  I would suggest playing a MetaVerse game (which allows no cheats) at Suicidal and post a score.  On the other hand don't play at all and don't bitch about what you know nothing about.

I wasn't aware Civ4 was doing so badly to send Sid Meier, Jr to promote the game.